#social 2014-09-16

2014-09-16 UTC
bblfish, nicolagreco, KevinMarks, nicolagreco_, pfefferle, melvster, tantek, barnabywalters, englishm, Shane, pfefferle_, deiu and cmhobbs joined the channel
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tommorris Arnaud, tantek: apologies for absence tonight. Won't be able to make the WG call.
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tantek hey tommorris. I'm in London today too.
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tommorris tantek: hey. food later in Victoria area? will /msg you
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tantek would love to but in W3C AB meeting then dinner :?
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tantek :/
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tantek and then likely collapsing since I'm on about 1hr of sleep.
englishm, nicolagreco, Shane and hhalpin joined the channel
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hhalpin waves
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hhalpin trackbot, start meeting
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trackbot is preparing a teleconference.
RRSAgent joined the channel
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RRSAgent logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/09/16-social-irc
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trackbot RRSAgent, make logs 411
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RRSAgent trackbot, access must be one of public, group-strint-submission, offline-webapps-workshop-program-committee, group-webmobile-chairs, group-rdf-val-pc, alumni, group-payment-workshop-submissions, wstar, group-digipub-chairs, member, memberSearchers, group-csv-chairs, wsridirectors, i18n, valid, group-strint-pc, webcrypto, offices, w3f, mlw, group-wot-workshop-pc, team, webandtv-moderators, ab, group-share-psi, group-payment-workshop-pc, memberEditors, w[CUT]
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RRSAgent 01303, or a Community Group ACL name
Zakim joined the channel
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trackbot Zakim, this will be SOCL
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Zakim ok, trackbot; I see T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 40 minutes
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trackbot Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference
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trackbot Date: 16 September 2014
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hhalpin I'm going to go through any remaining invited experts I can find now
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tantek is in the W3C AB meeting
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hhalpin does anyone believe their invited expert application is still not accepted?
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hhalpin KevinMarks, I'm talkin to you :)
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hhalpin [not accepted because we haven't received it - again, there was an error in SysTeams when setting up the WG with cc'ing chairs and me with IE applications, so missing things is quite probable right now]
elf-pavlik joined the channel
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Shane I am not on my usual machine today, is it fine for me to just stick to IRC for this meeting?
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hhalpin yep, you can lurk in IRC
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tantek Shane, I am only on IRC for this meeting
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tantek because I'm in a different W3C meeting in person
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Shane Excellent :) saves a lot of hassle!
nicolagreco joined the channel
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elf-pavlik hi Shane, hhalpin, tantek :)
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tantek hello elf-pavlik !
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Shane elf-pavlik: Hi :)
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wilkie hello
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elf-pavlik hi wilkie!
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wilkie elf-pavlik: hi! great work on the comparisons wiki pages
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wilkie I've been following intently
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elf-pavlik wilkie, thanks! i think of using something like SFW for side to side comparison http://fed.wiki.org/view/welcome-visitors/plugins.fed.wiki.org/about-plugins/plugins.fed.wiki.org/core-plugins
englishm joined the channel
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elf-pavlik preferably each page could live on a wiki of particular working group, but for now i just need better way to compare things
markus joined the channel
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wilkie hey, sounds good. I'll follow your lead. If you get a reasonable boilerplate up it will be more obvious where somebody can contribute.
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wilkie my 2c would be to do what is easiest
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wilkie and then delegate some tasks to me to fill out stuff because I will gladly do that if I know I won't step on your toes
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elf-pavlik Zakim, who's on the call?
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Zakim T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM has not yet started, elf-pavlik
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Zakim On IRC I see markus, englishm, elf-pavlik, Zakim, RRSAgent, Shane, cmhobbs, tantek, deiu, barnabywalters, melvster, KevinMarks, mattl, tommorris, bryan_, Arnaud, shepazu, rhiaro,
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Zakim ... oshepherd, Loqi, kylewm, bret, wilkie, rektide, Tsyesika, trackbot, botie, sandro, wseltzer
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rhiaro Hi, I'm also going to have to stick to irc for this one
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rhiaro (due to suddenly needing to relocate my life from one dodgy sublet to another)
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elf-pavlik hi rhiaro :) check out what i worked on during remoteStorage hack day last saturday - http://rshackday.hackdash.org/ :D
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Arnaud thinks elf needs to get some pills to calm down ;-)
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Arnaud the call is in 11mn!
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Arnaud 10 now
bblfish joined the channel
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elf-pavlik comes down with 10 deep breaths
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rhiaro elf-pavlick amaaaaaaazing
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rhiaro Don't calm down!
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Arnaud lol
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elf-pavlik likes rhiaro reaction but doesn't find it helpful to calm down ;)
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rhiaro Your intense productivity is inspiring
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rhiaro I watch mailing lists with awe
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Arnaud I agree it's great
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Arnaud my only concern is that you expect everyone else to have as much time to dedicate to this
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Arnaud I hope you realize that it's not going to be the case
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rhiaro And as soon as I stop with having an actual job and go back to PhD I hope to be able to contribute a fraction as much
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rhiaro (2.5 weeks!)
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Arnaud I don't mean to discourage you, by any means, but know that for most people this is just one of the many things they work on and we can only expect so much from them
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elf-pavlik Arnaud, I should calibrate my expectations to capacity of everyone else very soon ...
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tantek elf-pavlik: what's your personal site?
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elf-pavlik http://wwelves.org/perpetual-tripper
akuckartz joined the channel
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elf-pavlik server got offline yesterday thoug :( -- you can try it locally from https://github.com/elf-pavlik/webprofiled
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tantek oh dear - yeah was just trying http://wwelves.org/ and not getting any response
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elf-pavlik i need to contact friends from https://as250.net/ again about fixing it!
akuckartz_ joined the channel
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tantek is that your hosting company?
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Zakim T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM has now started
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Zakim +??P2
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elf-pavlik Zakim, who's on the call?
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Zakim On the phone I see ??P2
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elf-pavlik Zakim, P2 is me
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Zakim sorry, elf-pavlik, I do not recognize a party named 'P2'
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elf-pavlik Zakim, ??P2 is me
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Zakim +elf-pavlik; got it
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elf-pavlik Zakim, who's on the call?
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Zakim On the phone I see elf-pavlik
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Zakim + +972.3.645.aaaa
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dromasca Zakim, aaaa is me
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Zakim +dromasca; got it
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Arnaud trackbot, start meeting
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trackbot is preparing a teleconference.
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trackbot RRSAgent, make logs 411
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RRSAgent trackbot, access must be one of public, group-strint-submission, offline-webapps-workshop-program-committee, group-webmobile-chairs, group-rdf-val-pc, alumni, group-payment-workshop-submissions, wstar, group-digipub-chairs, member, memberSearchers, group-csv-chairs, wsridirectors, i18n, valid, group-strint-pc, webcrypto, offices, w3f, mlw, group-wot-workshop-pc, team, webandtv-moderators, ab, group-share-psi, group-payment-workshop-pc, memberEditors, w[CUT]
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RRSAgent 01303, or a Community Group ACL name
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trackbot Zakim, this will be SOCL
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Zakim ok, trackbot; I see T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
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trackbot Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference
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trackbot Date: 16 September 2014
bblfish joined the channel
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elf-pavlik hi bblfish congratulations to fresh daddy :D
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elf-pavlik Zakim, who's on the call?
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Zakim I notice T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM has restarted
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Zakim On the phone I see elf-pavlik, dromasca, +1.503.342.aabb, Arnaud
aaronpk_ joined the channel
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Zakim + +1.559.707.aacc
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aaronpk_ Zakim, aabb is aaronpk
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Zakim +aaronpk; got it
jtauber joined the channel
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elf-pavlik muted myself
dskiba joined the channel
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markus zakim, what's the code
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Zakim I don't understand 'what's the code', markus
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markus zakim, code?
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Zakim the conference code is 7625 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), markus
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Arnaud zakim, who's on the phone?
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Zakim On the phone I see elf-pavlik, dromasca, aaronpk, Arnaud, +1.559.707.aacc
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Arnaud chair: Arnaud
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Arnaud agenda: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2014-09-16
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Zakim +??P10
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Zakim +??P9
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Zakim +Sandro
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barnabywalters I just joined
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Zakim + +1.412.370.aadd
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Zakim + +1.303.204.aaee
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Zakim +??P15
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Arnaud zakim, aacc is jasnell
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Zakim +jasnell; got it
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wilkie Zakim, aadd is me
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Zakim +wilkie; got it
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Zakim -??P15
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dskiba zakim, aaee is me
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Zakim +dskiba; got it
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akuckartz_ hi
hhalpin joined the channel
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Zakim +deiu
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deiu Zakim, mute me please
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Zakim deiu should now be muted
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hhalpin Zakim, who's on the phone?
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Zakim On the phone I see elf-pavlik (muted), dromasca, aaronpk, Arnaud, jasnell, ??P10, ??P9, Sandro, wilkie, dskiba, deiu (muted)
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Arnaud zakim, who's making noise?
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sandro zakim, who is making noise?
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hhalpin Apologies, wil have to be in IRC rather than phone.
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Zakim Arnaud, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: 11 (28%), jasnell (5%), ??P10 (95%)
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Zakim +??P18
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hhalpin having a separate meeting at same time.
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aaronpk_ You've got to be kidding. Who plugged in a modem to the call?
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sandro zakim, mute ??P10
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Zakim ??P10 should now be muted
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barnabywalters wow such noises
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Zakim sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P10 (55%), Sandro (9%), ??P18 (10%)
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hhalpin Zakim, mute ??P18
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Zakim ??P18 should now be muted
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Shane That may have been me, sorry
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hhalpin Zakim, unmute ??P18
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Zakim ??P18 should no longer be muted
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sandro zakim, who is on the call?
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Zakim sees on the phone: elf-pavlik (muted), dromasca, aaronpk, Arnaud, jasnell, ??P10 (muted), ??P9, Sandro, wilkie, dskiba, deiu (muted), ??P18
bblfish_ joined the channel
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Zakim +[IPcaller]
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barnabywalters huh it might have been me somehow
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Shane Zakim, P18 is me
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Zakim sorry, Shane, I do not recognize a party named 'P18'
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Shane Zakim, ?P18 is me
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Zakim sorry, Shane, I do not recognize a party named '?P18'
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jtauber zakim, IPcaller is jtauber
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Zakim +jtauber; got it
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Shane Zakim, ??P18 is me
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Zakim +Shane; got it
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Arnaud zakim, who is on the call?
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Zakim On the phone I see elf-pavlik (muted), dromasca, aaronpk, Arnaud, jasnell, ??P10 (muted), ??P9, Sandro, wilkie, dskiba, deiu (muted), Shane, jtauber
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Shane I will not be able to use microphone but have managed to get onto the call to listen
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akuckartz_ can anybody hear me
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akuckartz_ ?
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Shane akuckartz_: No
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elf-pavlik http://www.w3.org/2006/tools/wiki/Zakim_Tips
bblfish__ joined the channel
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Zakim hears ??P9's hand up
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Zakim sees ??P9 on the speaker queue
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barnabywalters P9 is me
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akuckartz_ then P10 seems to be me...
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barnabywalters Zakim, ??P9 is me
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Zakim +barnabywalters; got it
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deiu Zakim, ??P9 is barnabywalters
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Zakim already had ??P9 as barnabywalters, deiu
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barnabywalters the 41# tip is handy
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elf-pavlik Zakim, who's on the call?
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Zakim On the phone I see elf-pavlik (muted), dromasca, aaronpk, Arnaud, jasnell, ??P10 (muted), barnabywalters, Sandro, wilkie, dskiba, deiu (muted), Shane, jtauber
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Zakim +??P15
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markus zakim, ??P15 is me
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Zakim +markus; got it
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Arnaud Zakim, ??P10 is akuckartz_
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Zakim +akuckartz_; got it
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markus doesn't hear anything... using SIP
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akuckartz_ I seem to be muted but I can try to scribe
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hhalpin I recommend Skype over SIP
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hhalpin SIP tends to drop for no good reason
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akuckartz_ yes, but I am muted
aaronpk joined the channel
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akuckartz_ Ok, I will try
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markus hhalpin, really? never had problems with SIP in the past
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Arnaud scribe: akuckartz_
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deiu scribenick: akuckartz_
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Shane I tend to have SIP drop out 30 mins in, but just requires reconnecting
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hhalpin I've had the same issue Shane, maybe its a protocol issue
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akuckartz_ searching for the tpics
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hhalpin anyways, there's rumours Zakim will upgrade to a more functional system in near future which will help people from outside the USA
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Arnaud topic: Approval of Minutes of 9 September 2014 Teleconf
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hhalpin https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2014-09-16
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Arnaud https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2014-09-09-minutes
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hhalpin https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2014-09-09-minutes
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markus hmm... no credit on skype.. grr
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elf-pavlik i made one small edit to minutes today: https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?title=Socialwg/2014-09-09-minutes&diff=prev&oldid=76918
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hhalpin agenda+ TPAC
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Zakim notes agendum 1 added
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hhalpin agenda+ Use-cases
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Zakim notes agendum 2 added
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Zakim +??P20
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Zakim -markus
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hhalpin agenda+ Social Syntax
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Zakim notes agendum 3 added
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hhalpin agenda+ AcivityStreams 2.0
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Zakim notes agendum 4 added
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hhalpin agenda+ AOB
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Zakim notes agendum 5 added
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oshepherd Zakim, ??P20 is me
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Zakim +oshepherd; got it
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hhalpin akuckartz_ you can say "Zakim, next agendum" to get the IRC
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akuckartz_ zakim, agenda
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Zakim I don't understand 'agenda', akuckartz_
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Arnaud topic: Tracking of Actions and Issues
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akuckartz_ Difficult without beeing able to speak...
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Arnaud https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Scribes
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akuckartz_ action 1 closed.
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trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
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trackbot Error finding '1'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Social/track/users>.
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akuckartz_ close action 1
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elf-pavlik https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2014-09-16#Social_data_syntax
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Zakim + +26226234aaff
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akuckartz_ next action will be closed by end of week.
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akuckartz_ close action 3.
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akuckartz_ zakim, next agendum
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Zakim agendum 1. "TPAC" taken up [from hhalpin]
tiborKatelbach joined the channel
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akuckartz_ Reminder: Registration required to participate in TPAC
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elf-pavlik https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2014-10-27
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elf-pavlik https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2014-10-28
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elf-pavlik q+
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Zakim sees ??P9, elf-pavlik on the speaker queue
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akuckartz_ See https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2014-09-16#TPAC for details
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hhalpin Note if you reigster quickly you get a discount on price! Register by Oct 1st - 75 USD vs. 150 USD I think..
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akuckartz_ Members are asked to provide input for agenda.
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Shane I've added myself as a remote (depending on times, I'm UK based)
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Zakim +??P22
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elf-pavlik https://www.w3.org/wiki/Talk:Socialwg/2014-10-27
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bret i just joined the call
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Arnaud q?
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Zakim sees ??P9, elf-pavlik on the speaker queue
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tantek I propose we use at least 50% of the time of the socialwg TPAC f2f for Barcamp-style sessions.
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Arnaud ack ??P9
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Zakim sees elf-pavlik on the speaker queue
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Arnaud ack elf-pavlik
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Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
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akuckartz_ For participants see https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2014-10-27
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bret Zakim, +??P22 is bret
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Zakim sorry, bret, I do not recognize a party named '+??P22'
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bret Zakim, ??P22 is bret
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Zakim +bret; got it
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rhiaro is trying to scrounge money from university for tpac but not a lot going around
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akuckartz_ zakim, next agendum
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Zakim agendum 2. "Use-cases" taken up [from hhalpin]
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akuckartz_ We need to finish the list of use-cases at some point. F2F should be used to finish this.
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tiborKatelbach Zakim, ??P9 is tiborKatelbach
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Zakim I already had ??P9 as barnabywalters, tiborKatelbach
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barnabywalters huh
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tiborKatelbach sorry
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barnabywalters I’m actually dropping out in a sec
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barnabywalters so you can have my ID :(
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barnabywalters :)
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Zakim -barnabywalters
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tantek I don't think " finish the list of use-cases" makes sense
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Loqi it'll be ok
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tantek I'd rather see the list of use-cases grow over time
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tiborKatelbach Zakim, ??P9 is tiborKatelbach
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Zakim sorry, tiborKatelbach, I do not recognize a party named '??P9'
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barnabywalters tiborKatelbach: dial 41# and see what Zakim says
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tiborKatelbach 41#
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Zakim hears +26226234aaff's hand up
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Shane I agree with tantek, we don't want to limit it too much but just make sure we are working within the scope of the charter
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Zakim sees +26226234aaff on the speaker queue
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wilkie tiborKatelbach: was that you that 41#?
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tiborKatelbach Zakim, aaff is tiborKatelbach
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Zakim +tiborKatelbach; got it
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tiborKatelbach yep
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Arnaud q?
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Zakim sees +26226234aaff on the speaker queue
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tiborKatelbach sorry
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Arnaud queue=
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Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
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elf-pavlik wiki down? http://isup.me/https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg
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elf-pavlik guess just doesn't work for me...
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elf-pavlik https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg#Use_Cases
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sandro zakim, who is on the call?
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elf-pavlik q?
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Zakim sees on the phone: elf-pavlik, dromasca, aaronpk, Arnaud, jasnell, akuckartz_ (muted), Sandro, wilkie, dskiba, deiu (muted), Shane, jtauber, oshepherd, tiborKatelbach, bret
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elf-pavlik q+
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Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
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Zakim sees elf-pavlik on the speaker queue
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tiborKatelbach please repeat the type of use cases your looking for ?
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Arnaud ack elf-pavlik
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Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
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elf-pavlik I'll work in next days on https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Check-In_Use_Case
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elf-pavlik akuckartz_ do you still scribe?
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akuckartz_ I try
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tiborKatelbach q+
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Zakim sees tiborKatelbach on the speaker queue
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Arnaud ack tiborKatelbach
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Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
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tantek elf-pavlik: before working on the use-case I'd suggest getting your site working!
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elf-pavlik tantek, of course but friends who host it need to fix their server, i'll sort it out in next days!
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akuckartz_ Question discussed: Will we create a "final" use case document or one in parallel to the work of the WG?
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tantek akuckartz_: I don't think any such "final" document makes sense.
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tantek dated snapshots maybe
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tantek but we should assuming living use-cases documentation
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Zakim +??P9
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rhiaro +1 to living use case document
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akuckartz_ Requirements will be based on the use-cases
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elf-pavlik q+
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Zakim sees elf-pavlik on the speaker queue
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akuckartz_ Members invited to seriously look at the use cases
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Zakim -??P9
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rhiaro People find new crazy things to do with social technology all the time [citation needed]
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Shane Why is check-in a different page to the other use-cases?
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Zakim -Shane
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akuckartz_ Who will take ownership of the use case document ? Should be more than one person.
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Arnaud ack elf-pavlik
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Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
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Zakim +??P9
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Shane Zakim, ??9 is me
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Zakim sorry, Shane, I do not recognize a party named '??9'
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wilkie with social systems, I believe you are as close to human creativity as possible, so you have to be flexible and use-cases will be surprising and develop as you go
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Shane Zakim, ??P9 is me
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Zakim +Shane; got it
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tantek why does there need to be "ownership" of the use case document?
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elf-pavlik I suggested that for group collaboration use cases we can just make sure that we cover our needs for W3 groups
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rhiaro +1 wilkie
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Arnaud q?
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Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
bblfish joined the channel
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akuckartz_ zakim, next agendum
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Zakim agendum 3. "Social Syntax" taken up [from hhalpin]
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elf-pavlik i didn't create it :) i think james?
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akuckartz_ This page was created: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_syntax
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Zakim +??P15
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markus zakim, ??p15 is me
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Zakim +markus; got it
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elf-pavlik q+
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Zakim sees elf-pavlik on the speaker queue
bblfish_ joined the channel
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tiborKatelbach q+
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Zakim sees elf-pavlik, tiborKatelbach on the speaker queue
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elf-pavlik akuckartz_, did you capture it?
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akuckartz_ Members should look at that page. Google invited to join this WG.
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Arnaud ack elf-pavlik
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Zakim sees tiborKatelbach on the speaker queue
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akuckartz_ especially regarding schema.org
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Arnaud ack tiborKatelbach
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Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
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Zakim -oshepherd
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sandro elf-pavlik, and everyone else, feel free to scribe your own words
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Zakim +??P18
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Shane I do like the idea of being interoperable across syntaxes if possible
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oshepherd Zakim, ??P18 is me
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Zakim +oshepherd; got it
cmhobbs_ joined the channel
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akuckartz_ Question discussed: do we need to select one vocabulary or can we be more open ?
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elf-pavlik q+
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Zakim sees elf-pavlik on the speaker queue
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tantek we should document existing vocabularies *in use* with *actual examples* of URLs of usage
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akuckartz_ Minimum vocabulary subset should be specified
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markus do we have a list of what is currently missing in schema.org?
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tantek why frame it as "missing in schema.org"?
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oshepherd markus: Oversight (*snark*)
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tantek why use schema.org as a starting point at all?
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markus because someone just said some things are missing in schema.org
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tantek it's shown to be badly overdesigned, e.g. /Volcano has faxmachine
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markus I'm wondering what those things are
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elf-pavlik tantek, strong incentive for people to use it - Google, Yahoo, Bing, Yandex supporting it
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tantek what's missing in schema.org is any sense of minimal design
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wilkie I agree with having a standard and reasonable subset and then allow graceful extensibility of vocab.
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tantek elf-pavlik: they claim to use it - actual support is unknown
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wilkie a minimal base that is
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elf-pavlik q?
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Zakim sees elf-pavlik on the speaker queue
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tantek schema.org is a horrible starting point
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tantek elf-pavlik: could you document actual evidence of Google, Yahoo, Bing, Yandex supporting it beyond validation tools?
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tantek which objects? which properties?
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tantek not only do I think that's futile, but a waste of time
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markus why tantek? bad design? too complex? ...?
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tantek both
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sandro tantek, http://blog.sgo.to/2014/09/schemaorg-actions-implementations.html
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akuckartz_ There is no consensus regarding schema.org
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Arnaud ack elf-pavlik
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Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
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elf-pavlik https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Collection_Comparison
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tantek and frankly, out of order for this working group, since we're working on *openly developed* vocabularies
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tantek and schema has been developed by an oligopoly at best
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oshepherd q+
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Zakim sees oshepherd on the speaker queue
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markus what hasn't? :-)
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tantek markus - nearly everything else
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tantek e.g. vCard, hCard, h-card etc.
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tantek everything in microformats, ActivityStreams etc. was developed fully openly
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tiborKatelbach as James said it is important to try to pull someone from schema.org into our discussions
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elf-pavlik Arnaud, -- suggests to fucs on what we need and then based on that look at vocabularies
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Arnaud ack oshepherd
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Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
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tantek so no, I see no reason to include any use of schema unless there is a member here who feels they need it
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akuckartz_ We first need to identify and define the information we want to exchange. Then we have a basis for the vocabularies.
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tantek how about documenting the information we *are* exchanging?
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elf-pavlik oshepherd, can you add you point to https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Collection_Comparison
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tantek as opposed to *want to*
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elf-pavlik +1 tantek
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tantek I'd rather make this *real world usage* based
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bret sandro thats a nice list, but its search centric. any use in a social applicaiton?
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tantek rather than *arm chair wishlist* based
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rhiaro I've looked at schema.org wrt connecting humans with creative media they publish in the web (which is in scope for social I reckon) and found it hit and miss, generally not a lot of use
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bret i guess the email thing is social, but limited to gmail
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tantek right
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wilkie microformats and activitystreams > schema.org for everything tantek has said about openness in particular
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markus +1000 to start with use cases and requirements
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elf-pavlik Arnaud, -- emphasizes importance of gathering USE CASES and agreeing on them
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wilkie real world usage and use cases should drive the minimal base vocab/actions
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sandro bret, I have no idea, sorry. I just was handed that list this morning, when I asked someone at Google about this work.
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bret ill keep my eyes out too
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akuckartz_ zakim, next agendum
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Zakim agendum 4. "AcivityStreams 2.0" taken up [from hhalpin]
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deiu Zakim, who's making noise?
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elf-pavlik Zakim, who's on the call?
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Zakim On the phone I see elf-pavlik (muted), dromasca, aaronpk, Arnaud, jasnell, akuckartz_ (muted), Sandro, wilkie, dskiba, deiu (muted), jtauber, tiborKatelbach, bret, Shane, markus,
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Zakim ... oshepherd
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Zakim deiu, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: bret (84%)
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tantek I'm going to point out that "search" and "email" and "app linking" are not among the use-cases / scope that we're looking at in this WG - so EVERY example shown in http://blog.sgo.to/2014/09/schemaorg-actions-implementations.html is out of scope for this working group
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bret ack! sorry
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tantek NONE of those are social
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akuckartz_ Where do we stand? Are there any issues?
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aaronpk the only example there that's social is the RSVP example in gmail
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tantek so yes, there is a thing called schema, created by an oligopoly, used for use-cases *specific* to those in the oligopoly, and *none* of it related to anything social (person to person)
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bret Zakim, mute me
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Zakim bret should now be muted
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tantek I'm going to keep pushing back on this - I see no actual *social* use of schema on the *web* from any of the examples given.
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akuckartz_ Members asked to look at the document and provide feedback. Use GitHub issue tracker.
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tantek gmail-specific proprietary extensions does not count as social web, sorry to say.
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Arnaud q?
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Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
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wilkie +1 tantek
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akuckartz_ zakim, next agendum
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Zakim agendum 5. "AOB" taken up [from hhalpin]
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aaronpk +1 tantek
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tantek also as noted in the comments on that page: "confusing that the screenshots don't match the examples"
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Shane I have to head out now, sorry. I agree with the points tantek is making.
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tantek so basically, I don't believe that "schemaorg-actions-implementations" page at all
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Zakim -Shane
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tiborKatelbach +1 tantek
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wilkie schema, from that list especially, seems to not have social-web implementations but rather corporate opportunistic uses that will likely be thrown away
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tantek we can safely ignore schema
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tantek for purposes of this wg
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akuckartz_ We should clarifiy the role of WG, IG and CG. Volunteer?
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tiborKatelbach all this should be shared outside of this group, unless I missed them out there
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tantek akuckartz_: please rephrase that as a question about the charter
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tantek s/charter/charters
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Loqi tantek meant to say: akuckartz_: please rephrase that as a question about the charters
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tantek of WG and IG
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tantek roles are defined in the charters
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elf-pavlik Arnaud: community groups - free form, can produce documents but binding only to members of group
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akuckartz_ Rephrased as suggested by elf-pavlk and others
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elf-pavlik Arnaud: working groups - in charge of producing actual specifications and have set time to deliver
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elf-pavlik Arnaud: overlap in WG and IG and we rely on it
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Zakim -dromasca
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elf-pavlik overlap in membership
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Zakim -dskiba
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akuckartz_ WG is limited in time, Chairs of WG and IG are in contact
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deiu waves
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Zakim -jasnell
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Zakim -jtauber
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elf-pavlik thanks Arnaud and akuckartz_ for scribing and chairing
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akuckartz_ I will do the rest tomorrow!
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Zakim -aaronpk
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akuckartz_ bye
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tantek ACTION Arnaud: Add "What is the role of Social WG, IG and CG?" as an FAQ to https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg#FAQ
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trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
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RRSAgent records action 1
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trackbot Created ACTION-4 - Add "what is the role of social wg, ig and cg?" as an faq to https://www.w3.org/wiki/socialwg#faq [on Arnaud Le Hors - due 2014-09-23].
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Zakim -Sandro
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Zakim -deiu
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Zakim -elf-pavlik
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Zakim -Arnaud
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Zakim -wilkie
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Zakim -markus
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Zakim -tiborKatelbach
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Zakim -bret
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Zakim -oshepherd
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elf-pavlik who ends the meeting and generates minutes?
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Zakim -akuckartz_
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Zakim T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM has ended
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Zakim ... jtauber, Shane, barnabywalters, markus, akuckartz_, oshepherd, +26226234aaff, bret, tiborKatelbach
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Zakim Attendees were elf-pavlik, +972.3.645.aaaa, dromasca, +1.503.342.aabb, Arnaud, +1.559.707.aacc, aaronpk, Sandro, +1.412.370.aadd, +1.303.204.aaee, jasnell, wilkie, dskiba, deiu,
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sandro http://blog.sgo.to/2014/09/schemaorg-actions-implementations.html
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bret sorry about the noise
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elf-pavlik sandro, what about this post?
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tiborKatelbach tantek I think you should write and share your thoughts about comparing the 2 vocabularies , it could be usefull for newcommers out there
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tantek tiborKatelbach: there are too many secondary vocabularies to bother with
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tantek schema is a non-openly developed bloated vocabulary used for very specific big-company vertical uses
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tiborKatelbach at least to put away the ones from an oligopoly
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elf-pavlik tantek, i don't disagree but at the same time has some advantages - eg. learning materials https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB94dIamAQc
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tantek I'm going to ignore it until someone in this WG actually decides to publish it on their own site (in all seriousness, not just as a test)
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tiborKatelbach I'm undersstanding this now but was looking for such info a while back and found nothing of the kind
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tantek tiborKatelbach: what info are you looking for?
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elf-pavlik tantek, my website ATM uses mostly schema.org + others when needed https://github.com/elf-pavlik/webprofiled/blob/master/test/fixtures/perpetual-tripper/index.json
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tiborKatelbach before starting working I was looking around
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elf-pavlik i know, i know i need to ask friendly hosts to fix their service ASAP ;)
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aaronpk elf-pavlik: your home page is a JSON file?
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rhiaro Not looked into it deeply, but would publish schema.org for seo purposes.. That's all though
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tiborKatelbach for critics about schema being oushed by the big players
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Arnaud trackbot, end meeting
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trackbot is ending a teleconference.
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trackbot Zakim, list attendees
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Zakim sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
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tantek elf-pavlik: for testing or ?
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tiborKatelbach I wanted to know why I shouldn't use it
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trackbot RRSAgent, please draft minutes
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RRSAgent I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/16-social-minutes.html trackbot
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trackbot RRSAgent, bye
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tantek what actual use-case are you solving with it?
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RRSAgent I'm staying, trackbot; no access has been specified for the meeting record
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Arnaud rrsagent, make log public
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RRSAgent I have made the request, Arnaud
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elf-pavlik i would prefer use other web search engines but for now most people uses big ones, so them understanding data i publish seems to me an advantage
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tiborKatelbach I build for example a event ticketing system , Json-ld based on schema.org
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tantek elf-pavlik: those search engines also all support open microformats
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tantek so there is no need to do the extra work for schema
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Arnaud tantek: for the record, I don't think it's very polite to give people actions without their consent :)
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tiborKatelbach what ever I'm building from now on, I'm structuring based on a common vocab
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tantek Arnaud: I gave you a clerical action - you already answered the question in the minutes :)
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tiborKatelbach which I thought was schema untill I joined SWG
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elf-pavlik or stuff like: Getting your events into the Knowledge Graph http://youtu.be/XXw8g-FbemI
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tantek I figured since you were chair that wasn't too much of an ask :)
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tantek so a lot of this is "how to get your stuff into Google's proprietary aggregation"
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tantek none of it is social
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aaronpk SEO is not a social use case
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elf-pavlik +1 Arnaud (on not assigning tasks to others!)
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tantek right, we should document that explicitly as a non-use-case for the WG
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Arnaud tiborKatelbach: are you officially a member of the WG?
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elf-pavlik tantek, how about self hosted community hubs aggregating events
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tantek elf-pavlik: URL?
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elf-pavlik and why to force people to - you either show up in indie hub OR google/yahoo/bing/yandex results
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tiborKatelbach only requested for the moment
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tantek elf-pavlik: not true - as google/yahoo/bing/yandex results support indexing microformats as well
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elf-pavlik next 3 days we will work on http://directory.open-steps.org/
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Arnaud you requested an Invited Expert status?
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tiborKatelbach I made the request but got no responses
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elf-pavlik we already have prove of concept where people can publish their profiles for examle using http://remotestorage.io instead of filling up google form
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Arnaud yeah, something went wrong with the Invited Expert application system
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tiborKatelbach I follow the form
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tiborKatelbach oh ok
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Arnaud are you affiliated with a W3C member organization?
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aaronpk http://calagator.org/ is a community event aggregator, all events are marked up with the h-event microformats2 vocab
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tiborKatelbach should I try again ?
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tiborKatelbach yes
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tantek tiborKatelbach: I see your entry here https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg#Applied_for_Membership
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Arnaud which organization?
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bret aaronpk, do the #social loqi logs have a homescreen shortcut?
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elf-pavlik tantek, can you maybe add links to support of microformats by 'big players' to https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Vocabulary_Comparison
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tiborKatelbach NGO Open Atlas, or company O.R.D
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aaronpk bret: yes http://socialwg.indiewebcamp.com/irc/social/today?bookmark
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tantek elf-pavlik: see http://microformats.org/wiki/search
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elf-pavlik tantek, thx!
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Arnaud wait, open atla isn't a member of w3c, is it?
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tiborKatelbach we are a small NGO
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elf-pavlik tiborKatelbach, http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Member/List
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tiborKatelbach I'm registered personnaly and represent them , I didn't think it was necessary , but I can go ahead if yo like
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Arnaud the W3C is a member organization
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Arnaud organizations that want to participate have to become a member
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Arnaud and pay the associated membership due
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tiborKatelbach it's non profit and doesnt have much funds for the moment
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Arnaud as an effort to be as inclusive as possible the w3c also allows limited participation of invited experts
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tiborKatelbach when it will , we'll suport
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Arnaud for the latter, you need to apply - which I guess you did
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tiborKatelbach yes I did
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Arnaud invited expert status is granted at the discretion of the chairs and w3c staff
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tiborKatelbach and I'm registered in several groups
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Arnaud well, you're not registered on this group :)
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tiborKatelbach does that mean I wont be ?
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tiborKatelbach I don't undestand ?
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Arnaud what do you not understand? I'm happy to explain
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deiu tiborKatelbach: you can only participate in this group if you are either a member of an affiliated organization (with W3C membership) or you have been approved as an invited expert
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tiborKatelbach as I received no response I don't know the status of the registration , will it be discussed ?
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Arnaud ok, I understand
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Arnaud your application is pending
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tiborKatelbach ok that's fine
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tiborKatelbach thanks
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Arnaud as I said, it's a bit messy unfortunately because we have had problems with the invited expert application system
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Arnaud normally the chairs are notified automatically, we haven't been
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tiborKatelbach so now you've found my lost request , right ?
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Arnaud yes :)
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tiborKatelbach :)
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tiborKatelbach that's the begining of the good news
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Arnaud ok, gotta go
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Arnaud ttyl
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tantek good night!
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tiborKatelbach bye everyone !
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hhalpin RRSAgent, generate minutes
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RRSAgent I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/16-social-minutes.html hhalpin
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