#social 2015-06-02
2015-06-02 UTC
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# melvster I wonder if this is a more useful use case than adding a 'hometown' : http://arstechnica.co.uk/security/2015/06/facebook-users-can-now-add-openpgp-keys-for-improved-email-security/
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# elf-pavlik raucao, hi o/ could you before meeting on thursday take another look at https://github.com/linkeddata/SoLiD#software-implementing-solid
# elf-pavlik aaronpk, can one use URIs for OAuth scopes? let's say I have an LDP Container https://wwelves.org/perpetual-tripper/calendar/ and i only want to authorize client to have read-write access to this particular container http://www.w3.org/TR/ldp/#ldpc
# elf-pavlik something we can use for various examples for proposed API implementations https://asciinema.org/
# elf-pavlik ben_thatmust, curl++
# elf-pavlik bblfish, ^
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# Loqi Pelf made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/Github]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=84359&oldid=83404
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# elf-pavlik aaronpk, after talking with fkooman i will research *audience* parameter to specify which particular LDP Container (or Micropub endpoint if i specify multiple ones) i want to authorize access to
# elf-pavlik we still found use of URIs for globally unique scope definitions interesting, looks like google also uses URLs https://developers.google.com/+/web/api/rest/oauth
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# Loqi Pelf made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-06-02]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=84361&oldid=84350
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# Loqi Pelf made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-06-02]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=84362&oldid=84361
# Loqi Alehors made 1 edit to [[Socialwg]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=84363&oldid=84347
# ben_thatmustbeme hmm, may be a bit late today
# ben_thatmustbeme have to conduct a phone interview
# melvster1 hope you get the job! :)
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# AnnB aaronpk++ for posting the minutes
# Loqi Aaronpk made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-05-26-minutes]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=84364&oldid=0
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# melvster1 tantek: in the last week I worked on caching and queuing mechanism so that the browser can pull in data from a user's website and follow links from it to multiple places, but remember what it fetched so that refreshing the app doesnt have to do all those round trips again, in this way the browser becomes an extension of your own footprint, in a certain sense
# melvster1 also have a daemon process running in the background to recheck pages that change more frequently
# melvster1 as we know cache invalidation is a hard problem :)
# melvster1 the reason for this is that the amount of data I was working with was getting sufficiently large, so that caching was important to make it scale better
# Loqi @linkedktk :: @elfpavlik @bergi_bergos @rhiaro sorry had to write down a bit more, here we go: https://gist.github.com/ktk/b50c938420edf78561c6
# melvster1 tantek: it doesnt fail too gracefully yet, but that's the plan going forward, by dogfooding in different scenarios I'll be able to know which parts are more important and which less important
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# RRSAgent logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/06/02-social-irc
# ben_thatmustbeme elf-pavlik: what was that about curl?
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# elf-pavlik Zakim, code?
# melvster1 elf-pavlik: FWIW I agree with that link
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# wseltzer let me know if you need any team support
# elf-pavlik rhiaro++ csarven++
# ben_thatmustbeme Zakim, aaaa is me
# elf-pavlik Zakim, IPcaller is me
# Loqi Tantekelik made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-06-02]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=84365&oldid=84362
# ben_thatmustbeme Zakim, mute me
# ben_thatmustbeme mute myself before the babies start screaming
# elf-pavlik babies++
# Loqi evanpro: aaronpk left you a message on 4/20 at 7:18pm: oh no I found a broken link on your site! https://e14n.com/2010/07/21/federated-social-web-summit-wrapup http://socialwg.indiewebcamp.com/irc/social/2015-04-20/line/1429582692056
# elf-pavlik Zakim, who's on the call?
# wseltzer thanks cwebber2
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# wseltzer regrets+ harry, sandro, jasnell
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# elf-pavlik I can scribe
# ben_thatmustbeme I'll try scribing
# ben_thatmustbeme sure
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# wseltzer scribenick: ben_thatmustbeme
# ben_thatmustbeme scribe: ben_thatmustbeme
# ben_thatmustbeme TOPIC: minutes from previous minutes
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# ben_thatmustbeme Arnaud: minutes of last meeting were missing but have just been added
# AnnB +1
# Arnaud PROPOSED: Approve 26 May telecon https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-05-26-minutes
# elf-pavlik +1
# ben_thatmustbeme ... proposes to approve minutes of may 26th
# Arnaud RESOLVED: Approve 26 May telecon https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-05-26-minutes
# ben_thatmustbeme ... Hering no objections
# ben_thatmustbeme s/Hering/Hearing
# ben_thatmustbeme Topic: Zakim being decomissioned
# aaronpk countdown to Zakim end of life http://www.w3.org/2015/07/zakim.html
# ben_thatmustbeme Arnaud: W3c is switching to WebEx and Zakim is being decomissioned. All working groups will have to switch off.
# AnnB W3C looking into WebRTC options, I think
# AnnB future tho
# ben_thatmustbeme ... Audio part of the calls will use webex, at least for the forseeable future. W3C is investigating alternatives. but for now we will be using WebEx.
# ben_thatmustbeme ... By the end of the month we will have to switch over
# AnnB I know, Zakim has been a faithful servant for years
# AdamB Zakim, aadd is AdamB
# ben_thatmustbeme ... This is dependant on team contact to get the reservation set up. Some people may find it better. Some prefer the webex client sound quality / experience, etc.
# wseltzer -> https://www.w3.org/2006/tools/wiki/WebExBestPractices WebEx Best Practices notes
# ben_thatmustbeme ... The biggest loss is that there is no integration with any bots that we have. We can still use Zakim for queue and trackbot, etc, but lose the ability to mute
# elf-pavlik Zakim, who's on the call?
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# ben_thatmustbeme ... Most annoying is you do not have a list of participants.
# ben_thatmustbeme ... some linux systems have issues, etc. review link posted by wseltzer in chat.
# wseltzer -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2015AprJun/0039.html W3C email to chairs
# ben_thatmustbeme ... We will follow up with team contact as to setting up reservation. Another annoying part is the conference code will change every week.
# Loqi Tantekelik made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-06-02]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=84366&oldid=84365
# wseltzer q+
# ben_thatmustbeme AnnB: Thats surprising, we use webex and have a standard code
# ben_thatmustbeme Arnaud: may be just lack of knowledge in setting it up thus far.
# ben_thatmustbeme wseltzer: W3C is still working with WebEx team and says that recurring meetings should be able to use the same code.
# ben_thatmustbeme AnnB: I have a standing meeting but I never schedule it, but it gives the ability to use the same code all the time.
# wseltzer q-
# AnnB I use "my" code for when I want to schedule random meetings
# ben_thatmustbeme Arnaud: in any case, this is a heads up. we are nearing the deadline. We are free to switch whenever we are ready. Some WG have already switched.
# ben_thatmustbeme cwebber2: will there be a phone line or SIP option?
# ben_thatmustbeme Arnaud: you can call either way. The client is fairly straight forward too. Client can even call you
# ben_thatmustbeme ... The client also shows who is making noise too.
# wseltzer cwebber2, you can also join by phone
# wseltzer I'm not sure what's required to get webex call-out
# ben_thatmustbeme ... In the meeting I had, the host was not in the meeting, but our team contact will be our host and will have more control over the call.
# AnnB wseltzer, if you guys need help figuring out some of these questions, I could ask our WebEx SMEs to help
# AnnB of course, I presume Cisco is helping you
# wseltzer will take that back to the team
# ben_thatmustbeme ... There is still a lot of mystery in the setup. As chair I wish I had more information.
# wseltzer thanks AnnB
# AnnB sure
# ben_thatmustbeme ... Moving on
# ben_thatmustbeme TOPIC: Review Actions
# elf-pavlik action-58
# ben_thatmustbeme Arnaud: there is one activity marked as pending review by elf-pavlik
# elf-pavlik close action-58
# ben_thatmustbeme ... elf just closed and has completed this action.
# elf-pavlik i find it very relevant to the work here
# ben_thatmustbeme ... Not going to go through open actions 1 by 1. Does anyone want to declare victory on any of those?
# ben_thatmustbeme ... Hearing none, lets move on.
# elf-pavlik how to encourage collaboration on actions among group participants?
# ben_thatmustbeme tantek: one thing that was discussed in IRC relating to action items, I would like to bring up using tracker for personal items. I suggest not cluttering tracker for personal items and only use it for actions that require the groups attention
# ben_thatmustbeme ... I wanted to raise that for clarification and to help minize time used
# ben_thatmustbeme Arnaud: I totally support what tantek said. I realized a lot of the open actions are assigned to elf-pavlik. These actions should be assigned during meetings and not be used for own personal todo list.
# elf-pavlik roger!
# elf-pavlik i'll move them by next week
# ben_thatmustbeme tantek: I agree, actions in tracker are actions assigned by the group
# ben_thatmustbeme Arnaud: lets move on to raised issues.
# ben_thatmustbeme ... I believe we discussed this issue (issue-43) last week, why is it still open?
# trackbot issue-43 -- What if anything should as2 say about i-json? per https://www.w3.org/wiki/socialwg/2015-05-26#i-json_discussion -- raised
# ben_thatmustbeme tantek: lacking a consensus last week, we left it raised.
# ben_thatmustbeme Arnaud: we had a short discussion last week. Are we in any better position this week?
# ben_thatmustbeme tantek: james was strongly against it and a group of us supported him as it is an editor issue
# ben_thatmustbeme Arnaud: existing software may not be able to produce ijson but I wish in issues like this we were a lot more clear about how we raise issues.
# ben_thatmustbeme ... someone should make a proposal that actually suggests a resolution, or a yes no answer
# ben_thatmustbeme tantek: i agree, if you want to raise an issue, it should be to point out a blocker or you are stuck
# ben_thatmustbeme tantek: based on that criteria, we should reject this
# ben_thatmustbeme Arnaud: if someone feels we should do something about ijson they should raise as a new issue
# ben_thatmustbeme tantek: i feel it should come with a use-case too
# ben_thatmustbeme is going stenographer level :P
# elf-pavlik +1
# AnnB abstains
# ben_thatmustbeme Arnaud: who raised this issue? also annoying when tracker does not have that data
# ben_thatmustbeme ... I will call it resolved
# ben_thatmustbeme i type fast
# AnnB ben_thatmustbeme++
# wseltzer trackbot, close issue-43
# ben_thatmustbeme Arnaud: no other issues pending review
# ben_thatmustbeme ... not going to tackle open issues now, i suggest moving forward for now
# AnnB both ben_thatmustbeme's hands/arms must be getting strong from holding twins!
# ben_thatmustbeme Topic: social syntax
# ben_thatmustbeme Arnaud: James is not on the call but he has updated the draft and sent the link tot he working group and suggest we just republish a new working draft
# ben_thatmustbeme ... He thinks that we have made significant progress and should publish it. It is just a way to communicate to the world what we are doing. and try to get broader attention to the draft
# wseltzer zakim, mute sandro
# elf-pavlik Zakim, who's making noise?
# ben_thatmustbeme ... Either people are happy to make the decision now, we can proceed, or we can take a week to prcoeed
# wseltzer zakim, unmute sandro
# AnnB wow ... someone just dialed in from the moon
# ben_thatmustbeme evanpro: I think it makes sense to take some time to review, but i think about a week is enough time to review
# ben_thatmustbeme tantek: I agree, there has be a lot of substantial edits, and we should update but the one concern i have is that he made a pretty big edit removing a lot of examples in syntaxes and i object to that edit
# ben_thatmustbeme ... I think the more people have various ways of approaching it, the better. He believes it is better to not have incorrect examples then to have some incorrect examples.
# elf-pavlik action-26
# ben_thatmustbeme Arnaud: he doesn't know microformats enough that he could correct them
# ben_thatmustbeme tantek: he could have easily put warning label that noted ones that have not been reviewed. Perhaps a seperate document that shows all the exmples of various formats
# elf-pavlik +1 sperate document for all non JSON(-LD) examples
# ben_thatmustbeme what happened
# ben_thatmustbeme nevermind
# elf-pavlik action-38
# ben_thatmustbeme tantek: the action for me on fixing the examples, they are getting incrementally getting completed. but i was hoping to continue and they have instead been all removed
# elf-pavlik i wait with action-34 for that resolution
# elf-pavlik action-34
# ben_thatmustbeme sandro: i do think removing them in the name of not having them be incorrect suggests an implicit decision that we are more likely to remove microformats, which we have not decided
# ben_thatmustbeme Arnaud: anyone else? otherwise the plan is take some time to review and give everyone a week to review
# ben_thatmustbeme ... I was delighted to hear the w3c has come up with a tool to automate publishing
# wseltzer -> https://github.com/w3c/echidna/wiki/How-to-use-Echidna Echidna, automatic publication system
# wseltzer q+
# ben_thatmustbeme ... does all the validation, sends emails, etc. but does require some preconfiguration. We will need help of team contacts for this
# elf-pavlik also IMO very cool recent PR to ReSpec: "Including body and title of GitHub issues" https://github.com/w3c/respec/pull/443
# ben_thatmustbeme wseltzer: i just put a link in the chat to the automatic publication process, but needs a group decision to migrate to it first
# ben_thatmustbeme tantek: i wanted to raise the concern forward to revert the change that removed the examples and put in a warning on nonreviewed parts
# elf-pavlik 0
# ben_thatmustbeme Arnaud: of course james is not here and he has to do the work
# elf-pavlik tantek, can you make PR with rever and adding those warnings?
# ben_thatmustbeme ... this is why we have the approve the minutes from the last week, to allow people to object to the previous weeks proposals that they were not there for
# elf-pavlik git revert just one command - adding warnings may take time
# ben_thatmustbeme tantek: I agree if he were here I do believe he would -1 this, but it should fall the the chairs to compell the editor to make the change needed
# ben_thatmustbeme Arnaud: there was an email thread started after F2F in paris. Sandro raised a question on correcting vocabulary of Activity streams.
# ben_thatmustbeme ... James is not here, I was hoping to make progress on this. I just want to make sure this issue doesn't go away
# elf-pavlik some toughts on API Operations vs. Social Activities https://github.com/w3c-social/social-vocab/issues/12
# ben_thatmustbeme ... I have asked sandro to raise this issue sooner rather than later. There was one question from james of what this has to do with activity streams, and not the protocol?
# ben_thatmustbeme sandro: activity streams becomes the protocol with activitypump, which is what brought it to my attention, but even without that, its framed in terms of things having happened. which makes perfect sense in terms of news, but odd when moving to other applications like internet of things. You can either it as the light turned on, or there is a state change and the light is now on. The model of "the state changed to this" becomes messy when dealing
# ben_thatmustbeme with a thermometer for example
# ben_thatmustbeme Arnaud: we'll have to take this back on when james is back on.
# ben_thatmustbeme ... that was just one specific example, though not social, i could come up with one.
# AnnB I agree @tantek that IOT is not 'social'. But I wonder if these concepts apply to how we (enterprise) want to use social for workflow management
# AnnB maddening, eh @tsyesika?
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# AnnB wonders who is 'guest83'?
# ben_thatmustbeme tantek: i think there is some merit to seperating it to "here is a list of posts" vs "here is how to CRUD posts"
# AnnB thanks bengo
# bengo :)
# ben_thatmustbeme sandro: do you check in at a location then check out? or just withdraw a check in? AS2 isn't clear on modeling these things.
# elf-pavlik sandro, could you add it to https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_API/More_user_stories ?
# elf-pavlik or use for illustrating this topic one of existing stories https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_API/Sorting_user_stories
# AnnB q+
# ben_thatmustbeme tantek: is that really social web or are you just treating that phone as a stream of information. My general request is that we try to avoid scope-creep in to internet of things. There are cases where it does occur like "listens" or "scrobbles" and I'd like to stick to examples like that and showing off exmples on sites like "last.fm has this"
# ben_thatmustbeme sandro: for example what about deleting a post? is that a new post or just removing the existing post?
# ben_thatmustbeme Arnaud: i think we should stop here, but this is a significant issue that we should look in to quickly before we move on too far
# elf-pavlik sandro, "or use for illustrating this topic one of existing stories https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_API/Sorting_user_stories"
# tantek re: deleting a post - it's both a protocol for doing so (part of CRUD), but can and should also be indicated at the permalink of that post. see http://indiewebcamp.com/deleted for current thinking/solutions for that
# ben_thatmustbeme AnnB: i agree with tantek on the scope-creep issue, but we in industry are interested in the activity management. is that outside of the scope?
# ben_thatmustbeme tantek: I think as long as a person is doing it, its within our scope?
# bengo I don't know how q+ works or the rules of teleconf, but if there are more folks than usual on here this may be a good time to share something I've been working on: http://livefyre.github.io/activity-vocabulary/ for the purposes of using like https://github.com/gobengo/dom-activity
# ben_thatmustbeme Arnaud: its really just a matter of how we represent, its not a question of it being not able to be represented, just how
# ben_thatmustbeme TOPIC: Social Syntax test suite
# ben_thatmustbeme Arnaud: not going to say much, just wanted to point out we have a repo set up and I noticed there has not been any activity at all. IBM put a lot of time in to it, so I would like to encourage WG members to step up and getting involved with it.
# elf-pavlik AnnB my voice may not work, could you help with topic: Coordination with IG ?
# ben_thatmustbeme ... I don't know if anyone has anything else to say on this
# ben_thatmustbeme can we post link to that repo?
# ben_thatmustbeme TOPIC: social API
# elf-pavlik can you hear me?
# wseltzer q+ ben_thatmustbeme
# AnnB oh sorry, elf, just saw your comment .. yes
# AnnB q+
# ben_thatmustbeme thanks
# wseltzer q- ben_thatmustbeme
# elf-pavlik i think my mic doesn't work again :( i propose moving to Coordination with IG
# elf-pavlik lets take Follow a Person vs. Subscribe to a Feed to async (github)
# elf-pavlik sorry, trying skype today but it doesn't help :(
# ben_thatmustbeme Arnaud: does anyone have anything to say about the social API point
# elf-pavlik just @mention me please in any repo
# ben_thatmustbeme evanpro: I think elf is trying to clarify establishing a relationship of say "following a person" vs "following a feed" but perhaps we can take this issue to github repo for activity streams
# ben_thatmustbeme TOPIC: coordination with IG
# melvster1 in implementing SWAT0 it was confusing what following meant, it would be good to have that clarified
# elf-pavlik melvster1++
# ben_thatmustbeme Arnaud: AnnB asked about merging IRC channels, the concern is congestion during meetings
# elf-pavlik +1 merge IRC channels
# ben_thatmustbeme AnnB: It has come up informally here and there, but not everyone has weighed in on this issue
# elf-pavlik tracker limitations but we don't use it any more in IG, moved to github :)
# ben_thatmustbeme ... it does seem to me and the IG that it would be valueable to merge the channels. during IG meetings it inhibits the WG from chatting at that time
# AdamB were there issues with patent policy and also tracking of actions, meetings etc?
# ben_thatmustbeme ... my alternative suggesting was to keep the IG channel for only meetings, but didn't want to just move everyone over here without WG approval
# ben_thatmustbeme Arnaud: was there an issue with trackbot?
# elf-pavlik we can try just moving and if people find 1h weekly call an issue we can move calls to #socialig as needed
# ben_thatmustbeme AnnB: this becomes moot if we are moving tracking to github
# ben_thatmustbeme Arnaud: not sure I agree, but if the IG keeps meeting on their own channel that isn't an issue.
# ben_thatmustbeme ... How do people feel on this
# wseltzer q+ to note IP issues on "contribution"
# elf-pavlik +1 merge IRC channels (adjust use of two as needed if problems appear)
# ben_thatmustbeme tantek: we had this conversation already and why is it coming up again?
# elf-pavlik q?
# ben_thatmustbeme ... we hit issues and they hit an issue and just stayed on their own channel
# AnnB q+
# ben_thatmustbeme wseltzer: just a reminder that the question of who can participate in discussions is seperate from the need to keep the patent commitments clear. Contributions to the spec need to be limited to those who are members or invited experts.
# ben_thatmustbeme Arnaud: I believe this is no different than contributions from the mailing list
# AnnB PROPOSE: let IG members hang out in WG #social channel; but scribe the IG meetings in #socialig
# ben_thatmustbeme AnnB: wseltzer, we thought that might be fine since all of our member in the IG are invited experts, but that is different
# ben_thatmustbeme Arnaud: does anyone object
# ben_thatmustbeme Arnaud: this is consistent with previous issue on it
# ben_thatmustbeme needs to know how to do that real quick :P
# aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg#Scribes
# ben_thatmustbeme :) just glad my audio didn't cut out this time, it has in the past
# ben_thatmustbeme which is why i hesitate to scribe
# ben_thatmustbeme I used to practice speed typing by trying to transcribe songs in real time
# bengo if there are more folks than usual on here this may be a good time to share something I've been working on: http://livefyre.github.io/activity-vocabulary/ for the purposes of using like https://github.com/gobengo/dom-activity.
# ben_thatmustbeme I believe you need to end the meeting before i get notes
# AnnB wow, Ben .. cool
# bengo It's real-world extension of current draft of AS Vocabulary
# ben_thatmustbeme s/notes/minutes
# RRSAgent I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/06/02-social-minutes.html trackbot
# AnnB uses the link in the IRC "topic" line, to jump to the wiki
# elf-pavlik AnnB, do you really see need for using second IRC channel for meetings?
# AnnB that's a question
# AnnB tantek suggs no
# AnnB aaronpk had raised the question (not really an objection) ...
# AnnB unfortunately that discussion happened after the meeting ended
# elf-pavlik we can try using just #social and if someone raises issue about IG having 1h meeting once a week we can move them to #socialig than :)
# AnnB my idea is, we'll try tomorrow and see
# AnnB yes
# AnnB I'm confused now about trackbot
# elf-pavlik it doesn't support two W3C Trackers (ISSUEs ACTIONs) on single channel, but now we use github so it doesn't matter
# trackbot Sorry, tantek, I don't understand 'trackbot has that effect'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
# AnnB haha, trackbot objects
# trackbot Sorry, tantek, I don't understand 'trackbot, why do you not understand?'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
# AnnB haha
# trackbot Sorry, Loqi, I don't understand 'trackbot has 2 karma'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
# AnnB along with Zakim, trackbot has been a faithful servant
# ben_thatmustbeme haha
# ben_thatmustbeme hmm, wow, 90 packages to emerge to can pandoc installed
# trackbot Sorry, tantek, I don't understand 'trackbot, nor am I self-aware.' nor the three laws, so you better watch yourself. ':P'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
# ben_thatmustbeme ohhhh gentoo
# Loqi Tantekelik made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-06-02]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=84367&oldid=84366
# elf-pavlik needs to run... ciao o/
# ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: i will for this time
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# AnnB was it resolved that we'll use github totally, not trackbot at all?
# elf-pavlik ben_thatmustbeme, what do you think about https://github.com/aaronpk/Micropub/issues/11
# wilkie ben_thatmustbeme: http://pandoc.amy.gy/
# elf-pavlik afk will check log later
# AnnB has to go ... later
# tantek ben_thatmustbeme: see: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg#Scribes for scribe instructions :)
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# ben_thatmustbeme yep working on screaming babies at the same time
# ben_thatmustbeme posted it now, i'll update as i get time
# Loqi Benthatmustbeme made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-06-02-minutes]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=84368&oldid=0
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# elf-pavlik !tell bengo let's discuss your AS extensions here on IRC? https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/134#issuecomment-108122077
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