#social 2015-07-14

2015-07-14 UTC
jasnell_, bblfish, jasnell, jaywink, bblfish_, tilgovi, Arnaud and tantek joined the channel
jasnell_ and cwebber2 joined the channel
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cwebber2
nearly forgot this week ;p
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ben_thatmustbeme
had maybe 3 hours of sleep last night. i'm ready, ;p
tantek joined the channel
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wilkie
cwebber2: I'm running my own copy of mediagoblin now
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wilkie
good stuff
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cwebber2
oh hey wilkie, awesome :D
eprodrom, bblfish and bblfish_ joined the channel
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aaronpk
interesting
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aaronpk
i've been thinking about something similar, I plan to post a bunch of different kinds of "collections" or maybe you'd call them "feeds"
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rhiaro
I would call them feeds
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cwebber2
wilkie: coincidentally we have a blogpost from tsyesika coming out real soon that explains the state of federation stuff in mediagoblin :)
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rhiaro
aaronpk, do you mean curated collections that remain static, or dynamic ones like /likes ?
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eprodrom
present+ eprodrom
csarven joined the channel
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wilkie
cwebber2: that sounds like a good read
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aaronpk
dynamic ones. based on the definition of collection vs feed we came up with this weekend, they would be feeds
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rhiaro
definition?
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aaronpk
present+ aaronpk
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cwebber2
present+ cwebber2
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tantek
present+ tantek
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eprodrom
I'm giving us a few minutes before the meeting starts
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eprodrom
But please call in!
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rhiaro
can someone drop the number and code in?
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jasnell_
present+ jasnell
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aaronpk
+1-617-324-0000 There is a meeting number: 642 112 960 The password is still 'socl'
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rhiaro
thanks
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KevinMarks
present+ kevinmarks
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rhiaro
present+ rhiaro
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eprodrom
trackbot, start meeting
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trackbot
is preparing a teleconference.
RRSAgent joined the channel
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trackbot
RRSAgent, make logs public
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RRSAgent
I have made the request, trackbot
Zakim joined the channel
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trackbot
Zakim, this will be SOCL
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Zakim
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
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trackbot
Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference
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trackbot
Date: 14 July 2015
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eprodrom
Zakim, who's on the call?
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Zakim
sorry, eprodrom, I don't know what conference this is
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ben_thatmustbeme
aww poor zakim
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Zakim
On IRC I see RRSAgent, csarven, bblfish_, bblfish, eprodrom, tantek, cwebber2, jasnell_, tilgovi, Arnaud, jaywink, KevinMarks, wilkie, melvster, tessierashpool_, tsyesika,
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Zakim
... ben_thatmustbeme, Loqi, slvrbckt, sandro, trackbot, raucao, aaronpk, dwhly, JakeHart, bigbluehat, ElijahLynn, mattl, oshepherd, tommorris_, bret, rhiaro, wseltzer
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eprodrom
Zakim, this is SOCL
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Zakim
sorry, eprodrom, I do not see a conference named 'SOCL' in progress or scheduled at this time
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ben_thatmustbeme
present+ ben_thatmustbeme
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aaronpk
rhiaro: collections are a specific ordering, and items can be added to the collection in specific locations. feeds are always date-ordered and things can only be added to the top of the list
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eprodrom
present+ eprodrom
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rhiaro
aaronpk: cool. Where's this documented?
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aaronpk
in my and jeena's head right now :)
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eprodrom
Can anyone scribe for us for this meeting?
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tantek
rhiaro: indiewebcamp.com/collection
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rhiaro
I can scribe
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eprodrom
scribenick: rhiaro
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rhiaro
audio is a bit crackly though, I'll do my best
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rhiaro
TOPIC: Approval of minutes
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eprodrom
PROPOSED approve minutes of 2015 07 07
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eprodrom
+1
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bret
i just joined the call
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rhiaro
RESOLVED approve minutes of 2015 07 07
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rhiaro
TOPIC: ActivityStreams2
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rhiaro
eprodrom: We voted previouslyto publish a new version of AS2. James, where are we with that?
eprodrom_ joined the channel
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rhiaro
jasnell: Sent an updated copy of drafts to harry two weeks ago, haven't heard back, so going to set up new tool so I can push it myself
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rhiaro
... Will update group as soon as it's done
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rhiaro
eprodrom: harry has been on vocation, not on the call today
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rhiaro
... echidna?
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eprodrom_
RESOLVED: approve minutes of 2015 07 07
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rhiaro
jasnell: Yes. I need an auth token from the w3 team lead. Harry or sandro will need to provide that
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rhiaro
... Sent a request to harry
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rhiaro
sandro: If harry can't do it today I'll look into it
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rhiaro
eprodrom: otherwise docs are ready to go? There was editorial work over the last couple of weeks
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rhiaro
jasnell: The only question is, there have been editorial updates since we voted, so if folks want to revisit and publish the current editors draft, or go with the one we originally approved
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rhiaro
eprodrom: IIRC we resolved to approve, subject to minor corrections
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rhiaro
jasnell: But some of the changes are substantial
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rhiaro
... I'll published the one we approved the previous week
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rhiaro
eprodrom: That sounds reasonable
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rhiaro
... If we're in a good editoral flow, it makes sense for us to plan for another WD in the enxt month or so, and speed up the schedule
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rhiaro
... Anything else you need from other members of the group to get this going?
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rhiaro
jasnell: Just need the auth token. Everything else I should be able to set up on my own. If any issues come up I'll work with harry or sandro directly
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rhiaro
... Did add more AS2 items to agenda
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rhiaro
... Updates based on discussions on github. I have added Organization back as an Actor. There was discussion in favour.
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rhiaro
... Removed as:Favorite as an activity type because of the overlap with Like
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rhiaro
... Favorites are really a collection of things that have been liked
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rhiaro
... If folks do not agree let me know
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tantek
favorites--
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Loqi
favorites has -2 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme
+1 for removing as:favorite, just a duplicate of as:like
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rhiaro
... Also restructured the git repo to be a closer match with what's being published. New directory structure, so the links to the editors drafts have changed, but I've added redirects
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rhiaro
... Added more expansive friend request example
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csarven
present+ csarven
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ben_thatmustbeme
in favor of removing as:favorite (actually get that minuted)
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KevinMarks
Slack's extension of like/fav to liek with emoji is intersting
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rhiaro
... These additionals and removals need to be reviewed
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rhiaro
eprodrom: You removed as:Favorite not Favorites
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rhiaro
jasnell: yes
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rhiaro
... Type in the wiki. Favorite not Favorites
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rhiaro
s/Type/Typo
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rhiaro
eprodrom: you've called for specific responses. I'm interested in the change in the purpose. That seems to be closely related to API issues
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rhiaro
... Not sure if that's something we should see come up more on Social API
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rhiaro
... Any feedback on this? Adding purpose to collections?
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rhiaro
... This was discussed just before the call
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rhiaro
jasnell: I'll give an overview of the issue
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rhiaro
... The basic idea is to add a new property to an object which identifies its semantic purpose, or to use ane xtension on the @type
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rhiaro
... We have a purpose field that says eg. purpose:favorites, or @type Favorites
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rhiaro
... Could exist on Collections or any other type of object to give you a context on why it would exist
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ben_thatmustbeme
which would be better for multiple types within a collection?
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rhiaro
eprodrom: activitypump defines a number of different collections for each actor
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aaronpk
why do we need anything other than a name for the collection?
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rhiaro
... You would see that as something we'd add in addition, to specify what those collections are for
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Zakim
sees aaronpk on the speaker queue
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rhiaro
jasnell: Be good if peole can weigh in on github or next week
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eprodrom
ack aaronpk
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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tantek
q+ to note that none of our user stories actually explicitly talk about collections, perhaps we should drop the feature from AS2
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Zakim
sees tantek on the speaker queue
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rhiaro
aaronpk: I do have what you're calling collections on my site. Different sets of things like the things I've favorited, or posts about bike rides. What is the purpose of making a machine readable value for the type?
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rhiaro
... If you just name them, people can figure out what they are. What's the use case for machine readable?
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rhiaro
jasnell: discoverability
hhalpin joined the channel
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rhiaro
aaronpk: You can look at the names of things
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ben_thatmustbeme
also, a type doesn't really give reason
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hhalpin
waves, apologies - finishing up a grant meeting
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rhiaro
jasnell: if it's a human doing the discovery then yes that works
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rhiaro
... If you want to automate the discovery, having an identifier that's consistent and not subject to localisation issues, translations etc, then having the machine readable identifier is preferred
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rhiaro
aaronpk: Okay, so finding specifically the list of what someone has liked, if you want to find everybody's streams of what they've liked
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rhiaro
... Implies there is a vocabulary for this
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rhiaro
jasnell: It's very similar to the use of link rels, but rather than attaching it to the link it's attaching it to the object
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rhiaro
... Just giving it a consistent label
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eprodrom
ack tantek
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Zakim
tantek, you wanted to note that none of our user stories actually explicitly talk about collections, perhaps we should drop the feature from AS2
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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Zakim
sees cwebber on the speaker queue
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rhiaro
tantek: Wondering if the challenges we are having discussing collections is one example of... AS2 has a lot of features in that arrived with the first draft, but for example the whole notion of a collection is not actually in any of our user stories, except for one with multiple objects. User story about voting on user stories. Other than that there's no user stories with collections
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rhiaro
... Maybe it's something we can drop.
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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rhiaro
eprodrom: I'm not sure that's the case. In AS, most of the ideas of a stream or having multiple activities or objects available at a particular endpoint are implemented as collections
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rhiaro
... Like being able to navigate someone's list of friends
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cwebber2
I was just going to chime in that inboxes/outboxes in activitypump are collections
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wilkie
how can you have a stream without the concept of a collection
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Zakim
sees ben_thatmustbeme on the speaker queue
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rhiaro
tantek: I guess the challenge I'm having is that collections are like a simple array. Which I agree does make sense.
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rhiaro
... That's just a data structure
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cwebber2
so that's a lot of our user stories
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rhiaro
... But when we start talking about giving a collection a special label or type, then I start to think that's not necessary for just having lists of friends
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rhiaro
... The term collection might be being misused, or at least confusing
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eprodrom
ack ben_thatmustbeme
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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hhalpin
A collection tends to be an unordered list, while an array is an ordered list.
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wilkie
you still need some way of identifying the collection in meta. like, how many items does it have? etc
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hhalpin
i.e. a set vs. an unordered set.
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Zakim
sees jasnell_ on the speaker queue
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rhiaro
ben_thatmustbeme: Couple of qustions. Once you specify one type: here's a collection that only contains favorites. What if my collection contains multiple types?
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hhalpin
I think you can call it more or less whatever you want :)
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aaronpk
i plan on publishing collections with multiple types of posts fwiw
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rhiaro
... I could just to through the collection and find the type of everything that's in there
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csarven
Wouldn't different typed items belong in different collections?
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rhiaro
eprodrom: Good question
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rhiaro
... In case of favorites, the thing favorited might be 'audio', 'video', 'note', etc. What makese them favorite is that they're members of this collection
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tantek
this is odd because in practice we do have "likes" as objects/posts
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rhiaro
jasnell: that's exactly the point
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aaronpk
I already have multiple post types in the same "collection" actually (what I would call feed/stream) http://aaronparecki.com/metrics
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rhiaro
... Just knowing the type of objects that are in that set don't tell you why they're there
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eprodrom
friends
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melvster
collection is like an object in JS {}
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cwebber2
I do like the way favorites/likes currently show up as objects in pump.io currently
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rhiaro
... With AP, this notion of inbox and outbox. If you have one collection URL, how do you know whether it's an inbox or outbox? How do you know what it is for?
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cwebber2
and yeah the permissions thing does happen, sometimes I see someone liked a thing I can't see what it is :)
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cwebber2
that's an interesting thing
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rhiaro
... Having some way to explicitly identify that roles makes it much more explicit
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rhiaro
ben_thatmustbeme: Sounds like we need another set of vocabularies for types of collections
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KevinMarks
no, melvster because {} requires named keys
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melvster
implemented inbox in the last week ... the bit implementation challenge was how to get PART of the inbox vs ALL of the inbox
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rhiaro
jasnell: I'd rather avoid it. I'd rather not have it be extensive as another set of terms. But looking at the API we already have these notions.. We already see merging some of these concepts of different types of collections
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rhiaro
tantek: What API for inbox?
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KevinMarks
it a list [] without assumed order
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rhiaro
jasnell: ActivityPump, pump.io
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rhiaro
eprodrom: There's also list of friends, followers, people you're following, list of people you've put into a collection (like g+ circles).
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ben_thatmustbeme
in many cases rel= and description could solve a lot of the issues
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melvster
eprodom++
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Loqi
eprodom has 1 karma
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cwebber2
collections are critical to activitypump's current design
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rhiaro
... The thing that's interesting here is that instead of having a list of friends, we have a list of the activities that created those friends
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melvster
eprodrom++
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Loqi
eprodrom has 22 karma
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rhiaro
... I think that's an interesting question. I wonder if there is value to one side or the other
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rhiaro
... To me I'd rather have the people than the activities
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cwebber2
it would be a total restructuring of everything if that were dropped
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ben_thatmustbeme
+1 to list of People, not activities
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rhiaro
... I don't know if there's a good answer for the other
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cwebber2
and it would have serious repercussions in what tsyesika is doing structuring things in mediagoblin too
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rhiaro
jasnell: For things like your friends list, we have the relationship object, so you could have a collection of thos eobjects. You could infer friends from that. So not necessarily have the explicity purpose
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rhiaro
... But for things like likes, favorites, sharing, saving. Those are much more difficult to infer
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cwebber2
lots of things, playlists of audio/video, feeds of things you like, feeds you subscribe to, those are pretty critical
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rhiaro
(infer from properties?)
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tantek
or from name?
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eprodrom
example.org/evan/favorites
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rhiaro
eprodrom: Another thing you cold do to infer it is look at /favorites and see if a collection is returned to me
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rhiaro
... Then I know what that is
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rhiaro
... /favorites is an example url, could be /whatever. Just because I was looking for favorites.
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tsyesika
cwebber2++
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Loqi
cwebber2 has 38 karma
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rhiaro
... Seems useful, not sure if it's crucial
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rhiaro
tantek: I think I understand now what James was saying about rel values
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rhiaro
... If you have a rel value that says rel="likes-feed" that gives you a way to do discoverability and the feed itself desn't have to say anything
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rhiaro
eprodrom: this is almost the rev in html temrs
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rhiaro
... These are the likes of someone else
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KevinMarks
these are others' likes of my post? a facepile?
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rhiaro
jasnell: There's a number of different ways of doing. Need to make a decision. Do we want to attempt to do everything implicitly where we look at the contents of the collection to see what it's for or do we want an explicit identifier
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rhiaro
... Or do we do it with the object itself using link rel
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rhiaro
... Just need to know what people would like to see
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rhiaro
... Issue 188
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rhiaro
eprodrom: Let's contineu the conversation in the issue
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rhiaro
... And see if we have an update for our next call
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rhiaro
... Let's move on if no more questions
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rhiaro
TOPIC: Social API
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rhiaro
There aren't actually any updates
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hhalpin
scribenick: hhalpin
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hhalpin
oh well!
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rhiaro
Not sure if people have looked at that
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hhalpin
Should we move onto the Webmention topic then?
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rhiaro
Just a few headers, with some comparison stuff
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rhiaro
Not changed since last week though
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rhiaro
is unmuting
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eprodrom
rhiaro: are you on the call?
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hhalpin
can you speak rhiaro?
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hhalpin
rhiaro: we've put this document together but haven't had much feedback
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hhalpin
... no time to update, so it's the same
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hhalpin
... however, we encourage people to look at it, will be working on it by end of week
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hhalpin
... start of strawman
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hhalpin
eprodrom: moving from comparison to strawman
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hhalpin
... still micropub and activitypump evolving side-by-side
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hhalpin
... we'll continue this development and this doc will track those
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hhalpin
rhiaro: if there's a convergence we add it there
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eprodrom
q?
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Zakim
sees jasnell_ on the speaker queue
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hhalpin
ack jasnell_
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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eprodrom
q- jasnell_
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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hhalpin
eprodrom: Next steps is continued work in activitypump, micropub, and tracking similarities
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hhalpin
tantek: As far as an update is concerned, I would be intereted in hearing when the prototypes are done
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hhalpin
... there is a certain status right now, but how much is prototype and kinda working?
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hhalpin
... or how much is an API design that hasn't been prototyped?
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hhalpin
aaronpk: My goal is to drive contributions while I have code working on it
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hhalpin
... I've got a backlog of code
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hhalpin
... so that's why I haven't contributed as much
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hhalpin
... as I'm coding first
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hhalpin
eprodrom: Everyone on the call should understand that this work will have a convergened version that will have one spec, correct?
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hhalpin
aaronpk: That was my understanding, but I don't want to make suggestions till the code works
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hhalpin
rhiaro: Mine as well
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hhalpin
... comparisons are definitly potential, as well as where htings are done diferently, maybe two optioins in one spec
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hhalpin
eprodrom: Very reasonable sounds good!
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hhalpin
topic: charter license update
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hhalpin
rhiaro?
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hhalpin
want to take scribing back on?
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rhiaro
scribenick: rhiaro
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hhalpin
he said 'sandro, time for an update'
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rhiaro
sandro: Nothing new to share with the group. Issues to straighten out, hoping to get approval from w3c tomorrow or a week from tomorrow, then will go to AC
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hhalpin
scribenick: rhiaro
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rhiaro
tantek: One of the actions assigned to me is define how implied post typing works. The more I write that up, the more it sounds like a spec
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rhiaro
... Follow a sequence of steps. If I"m goign to contribute that as a spec, I'd like to do that with the new license
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rhiaro
... So hopefully we'll get through the rechartering quickly
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rhiaro
sandro: understood
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rhiaro
eprodrom: Moving forward..
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rhiaro
TOPIC: SWAT0 implementation
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rhiaro
tantek: As background, SWAT0 is the Social Web Acid Test, is something that myself, evan and david (??) came up with almost five years ago at the Federated Social Web Summit
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KevinMarks
recordon
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rhiaro
... to provide a difficult challenge for different integrated social services to demonstrate that they are federating in such a way that satisfies a fairly common use case, even at the time, that people were using social networks for
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rhiaro
... I'll summarise
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rhiaro
... A takes photo of B with their phone and posts and tags B i in it
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rhiaro
... Then B is notified that someone posted a tagged photo
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KevinMarks
SWAT0 A posts+tags mobile photo of B B photo notified C(follows A) sees it; replies A&B comment notified
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rhiaro
... Person C who is following A, sees the photo post from A and in the same interface, replies or comments o nthe photo
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rhiaro
... Both A (author) and B (tagged) get notified
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rhiaro
... about the comment
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rhiaro
... THat's a fairly common thing people do on any photo social network service
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rhiaro
... But noone does it across services
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hhalpin
+1 for getting this working!!
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aaronpk
ooh I need to review that to see if it's accurate now that it's been implemented
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rhiaro
... This weekend, we got that working with three different people, using three different pieces of software, running on their own sites, working with mobile phones
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rhiaro
... A was ben_thatmustbeme
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rhiaro
... took ap hoto with his phone of B (aaronpk)
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rhiaro
... Posted it to site from his phone with micropub
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rhiaro
... used webmentions to notify aaron's site that he tagged him in a photo
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rhiaro
... aaron got notification on his phone immediately
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rhiaro
... By the way, 3 different locations
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rhiaro
... Portland, Boston, SF
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rhiaro
... kylewm, subscribed to ben, saw the photo and commented
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rhiaro
... comment went to ben and aaron
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rhiaro
... ben and aaron got notifications
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rhiaro
... There's a writeup and a video
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rhiaro
... Appears we got that working
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rhiaro
... This is our one approved user story
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rhiaro
... Which we got working with micropub, webmentions and microformats
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rhiaro
eprodrom: Great achievement. Congratulations in order
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melvster
link to video would be great ....
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ben_thatmustbeme
didn't we approve the unanimously +1'd user stories too? need to check previous minutes to double check
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rhiaro
... Good show of the continued maturing of micropub, webmention and microformats
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eprodrom
q?
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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Zakim
sees ben_thatmustbeme on the speaker queue
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eprodrom
ack ben_thatmustbeme
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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rhiaro
... Also an interesting challenge to folks working on SoLiD and ActivityPump to show the same kind of activity
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rhiaro
ben_thatmustbeme: didn't we approve the +1'd user stories?
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rhiaro
tantek: I vaguely remember that, but couldn't find it on the wiki. Can someone find that resolution?
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rhiaro
... We should udpate the approved user stories accordingly
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rhiaro
... Anybody else?
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rhiaro
eprodrom: I'll take an action to see if we have that
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rhiaro
... If we do I'll update the approved user stories
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melvster
I have 13 listed here ... SoLiD have 5 implementations currently ... 6th in progress : https://github.com/w3c-social/social-ucr
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rhiaro
... I remember it too
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rhiaro
tantek: maybe one of us just dropped the ball in updating the wiki
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rhiaro
... The nice thing about SWAT0 is that no one person or implementation can claim to implement SWAT0. You have to have at least two different pieces of software
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rhiaro
... One of the things we learned that there are very different implementation requirements for A vs B vs C
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rhiaro
... Identifying those requirements was part of the challenge
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rhiaro
... Especially for people making their own, it may be easier to play on eof those roles rather than another
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rhiaro
... But then, it maybe be possible to create software that does all three
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rhiaro
... There aren't any I'm aware of currently in indieweb
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rhiaro
... statusnet originally could do all three?
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rhiaro
... That's maybe another bar to achieve. A piece of software that can play all three roles. I don't think we've had any since statusnet
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rhiaro
eprodrom: This is good step forward. I appreciate everyone's work on it
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rhiaro
... Anything else to talk about here?
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rhiaro
tantek: Any questions?
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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melvster
would love to see the indieweb version of SWAT0 interoperate with one of SoLiD and/or ActivityPump, if that is at all feasible
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eprodrom
melvster, are you on the call?
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melvster
following on irc
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rhiaro
eprodrom: I'mnot sure if that is feasible. By the definition of those groupings.
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KevinMarks
if Solid marks up with mf2 and sends webmentions, sure it is
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rhiaro
... We're not talking about pieces of software as much as groups of software that implement particular protocols
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aaronpk
you could certainly upload the photo via a SoLiD api instead of the micropub api
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rhiaro
tantek: certainly possible if there's a solid or AP implementation that published microformats or sends webmentions. Would be a cool bridge.
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KevinMarks
you cna send webmentions externally to the page too
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KevinMarks
so just needs mf2 in html
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rhiaro
... If anyone is implementing SoLiD or AP based pieces of software, see if you can also publish in your html microformats
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rhiaro
... If you need help with webmention there are a ton of libraries that are simple to use to call that
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KevinMarks
(I think tantek and me are saying the same thing in parallel)
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aaronpk
check out http://indiewebcamp.com/SWAT0#implementation_requirements and see which of A, B or C is easiest to implement
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rhiaro
eprodrom: The client API could be solid or AP or micropub, and the server to server is using webmention
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KevinMarks
exactly evan
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rhiaro
tantek: each of the different players is talking whatever with its server
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rhiaro
... the federation depends on webmention and microformats as far as I can tell
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KevinMarks
also the notification wiring
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rhiaro
eprodrom: yes. Interesting to see that happen
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ben_thatmustbeme
that would be cool
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rhiaro
... Move on:
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rhiaro
TOPIC: Outstanding actions and issues
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rhiaro
eprodrom: No pending or raised issues that we haven't dealt with
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rhiaro
... Would like to ask if we have any of our open issues that we'd like to report progress on?
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rhiaro
... I will report progress on action 71
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rhiaro
action-71
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RRSAgent
sees no action items
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trackbot
is looking up action-71.
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trackbot
action-71 -- Evan Prodromou to Break up github issue 133 into several ones, and close 133 -- due 2015-07-14 -- OPEN
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rhiaro
... Is now complete. Will close.
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rhiaro
... Any others?
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rhiaro
... So that's the end of the agenda.
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rhiaro
... Anything else?
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ben_thatmustbeme
' RESOLVED: accept all user stories that are entirely positive as official user stories '
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rhiaro
eprodrom: One thing that tantek, I and staff contacts have discussed is cutting down on our meeting schedule for the next few weeks, since we are into vacation season
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme++
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Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme has 100 karma
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KevinMarks
well found ben
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cwebber2
and I'll be at OSCON next week
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cwebber2
(will anyone else?)
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rhiaro
... Starting next week, we would skeip every other meeting
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rhiaro
... We would have no meeting on 21st, but one on 28th
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ben_thatmustbeme
has a copy of all minutes so it was a matter of using grep :D
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rhiaro
... (etc)
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rhiaro
... In september we would pick up our regular meeting schedule
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rhiaro
... To deal with absences etc
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rhiaro
... any objections?
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ben_thatmustbeme
woo, made 100 karma
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aaronpk
cwebber2: I'm in Portland but not going to oscon!
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rhiaro
tantek: so next meeting 28th?
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wilkie
cwebber2: I'll be in Portland too!
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rhiaro
eprodrom: yes
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wilkie
aaronpk: let's have a get-together
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cwebber2
aaronpk: wilkie: ooh, yeah get-together would be great
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rhiaro
... ajourn!
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eprodrom
trackbot, end meeting
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trackbot
is ending a teleconference.
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trackbot
Zakim, list attendees
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Zakim
sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
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cwebber2
ok later everyone!
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tantek
eprodrom++ for chairing!
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Loqi
eprodrom has 23 karma
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trackbot
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
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RRSAgent
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/14-social-minutes.html trackbot
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trackbot
RRSAgent, bye
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RRSAgent
I see no action items
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rhiaro
RRSAgent make minutes public
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tantek
rhiaro++ for minuting!
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Loqi
rhiaro has 125 karma
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tantek
goes to edit next / future
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tantek
Agenda page for two weeks from today is up, please feel free to add agenda items: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-07-28#Additional_Agenda_Items
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Zakim
excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
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raucao
anyone knows a format/vocab i could use for marking up a personal profile in remotestorage?
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raucao
i'd like to have a json ld containing not just a vcard but also things like current location, timezone etc
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raucao
maybe that belongs in a vcard too, not sure
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raucao
as this is the social wg chan, i was just thinking there's probably something somewhere that's maybe at least spec'ed, if not used by multiple programs/sites/services to read people's profile information
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raucao
s/read/publish and consume
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raucao
melvster: what's solid's approach to that?
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melvster
raucao: mix and match the vocabs you like in SoLiD
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melvster
SoLiD is all about user choice
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raucao
melvster: thanks
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melvster
raucao: np ... a good vocab search engine: http://lov.okfn.org/dataset/lov/
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raucao
ah, i think rhiaro showed me this during indiewebcamp
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raucao
already forgot about it
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melvster
timbl's location
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melvster
→ geo:lat → "42.361860"
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melvster
→ geo:long → "-71.091840"
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melvster
← is foaf:based_near of ← Tim Berners-Lee
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raucao
hmm
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raucao
but am i based somewhere when i just visit?
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raucao
sounds to me like that's more of a home location
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melvster
good point
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melvster
yeah just an example ... but if you look at geo there's stuff there
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melvster
location
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melvster
geo:location
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melvster
→ rdf:type → rdf:Property
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melvster
→ rdfs:range → SpatialThing
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melvster
→ rdfs:label → "location"
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melvster
→ rdfs:subPropertyOf → foaf:based_near
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melvster
→ rdfs:comment → "The relation between something and the point, [nl]
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melvster
or other geometrical thing in space, where it is.␣␣For example, the realtionship between[nl]
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melvster
a radio tower and a Point with a given lat and long.[nl]
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melvster
Or a relationship between a park and its outline as a closed arc of points, or a road and[nl]
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melvster
its location as a arc (a sequence of points).[nl]
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melvster
Clearly in practice there will be limit to the accuracy of any such statement, but one would expect[nl]
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melvster
an accuracy appropriate for the size of the object and uses such as mapping .[nl]
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melvster
lots of stuff out there ... pick and choose what suits your, or make your own ...
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melvster
there's also linked geo json
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raucao
the point of my question was more to use mostly what existing apps already might understand
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melvster
let me check
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raucao
i know it's nice to mix and match a million vocabs, but it would also be nice to just agree on "this is a profile" roughly with other social apps and use cases
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raucao
(the current location/timezone being a bit of an exception of course, because for most people that doesn't change much and when it does they don't care to update something)
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raucao
(although it could automatically change when they "check in" via apps etc)
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melvster
raucao: yes, you are correct ... I asked andrei, he doesnt use location yet ... so im not really a domain expert on that one ... but we'll implement it soon ... would be very happy to share noes if you have ides ... I think also maybe ask elf-pavlik
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raucao
ok, cool
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melvster
s/noes/notes
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raucao
i'l wait a bit then
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raucao
is buying an L for his last line
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melvster
raucao: i *really* want to implement checkins now :)
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raucao
hehe
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raucao
me too
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raucao
i want to at least put my foursquare ones in rs
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raucao
for the profile it's more so we can have team dashboards showing everyones timezone etc :)
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melvster
raucao: do you know https://waffle.io/ ?
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raucao
yes. slvrbckt once added remotestorage repos and then it started adding labels to everything all the time :)
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melvster
raucao: what do you think of my idea of a decentralized wallet, you can give every github repo a wallet / economy ... then inter wallet trading so github+chat = gitter, github+tasks=waffle ... github+wallet = SolID ... then they all inter mingle and JS is used to create functional (sic) money
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melvster
smart contracts, web of trust etc.
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melvster
bounties on issues
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melvster
pay per commit
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raucao
uh, that's a lot of things you just put in one sentence
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raucao
not sure i understand the added benefit compared to just publishing a btc address in your readme
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raucao
pay-per-commit is hard to do right as commits can be so vastly different
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raucao
and LOC is not a good measure of effort
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melvster
raucao: in a word liquidity, money creation, be your own central bank ...
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raucao
so positive money attached to repos
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raucao
lines of code
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melvster
raucao: very true ... this is why the ICO (initial coin offering) goes in tranches, and you tweak it each time
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raucao
i think every project has to decide for themselves what makes sense in their caes
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raucao
case
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raucao
for kosmos we created counterparty tokens
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raucao
but not using them much yet
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melvster
yes exactly ... so every project has a JSON config file that says how things are distributed ... it can become functional too
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melvster
yeah i heard they're real easy to creat
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melvster
it's a nice idea
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melvster
but i feel counter party is fundamentally limited, we will see
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raucao
yes counterparty is very usable already
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raucao
it does everything we'd need from crypto assets
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melvster
perfect then
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raucao
including the ability to pay dividends as btc
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melvster
i should be able to interop with that
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raucao
cool
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melvster
raucao: can it create btc?
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melvster
that's the acid test
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raucao
lol no
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raucao
why should it?
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melvster
3. profit $$$$
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melvster
my system can create bitcoins
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raucao
if it's not mining, then no it can't
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raucao
which is the beauty of bitcoins
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melvster
you'll see ;)
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raucao
and of counterparty riding on that blockchain
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raucao
i think i know what you're talking about and people call it positive money
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raucao
but if you count that in btc then you basically just write btc ious
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melvster
you mean as in positive money the uk think tank?
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raucao
no as in money not created by credit
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melvster
raucao: you're very close, it's what im calling a personal coinbase, it's quite complex and quite simple at the same time ... easiest way to understand it will be to use it, ill show you
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melvster
quite close to open tabs
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melvster
takes everything i learnt from open tabs and from SoLID and puts it together
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raucao
looking forward to trying it out then :)
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melvster
currently in testing ... im just hooking it up to the github node API and tuning for performance
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melvster
"Generally payments are considered first order functions of the web, allowing triggers, hooks, event propagation and smart contracts. JavaScript is the turing complete scripting language. Notaries and oracles can be included using linked data."
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melvster
I think this is going to be like ethereum but using JS and bootstrapping the web
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melvster
only think i didnt add there was a decentralized exchange
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melvster
raucao: for a currency to be successful it has to be easy enough for people to use, and complex enough to confuse the f*ck out of everyone ...
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melvster
semantic web is ideal for part (2) :)
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