#social 2015-07-28

2015-07-28 UTC
tilgovi and jasnell joined the channel
tilgovi and jasnell joined the channel
the_frey, jasnell, almereyda and melvster joined the channel
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melvster
great news ... an successful open source project (over 2 million users) is thinking about adopting SoLiD or some of sections or the SoLiD spec ...
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melvster
still in early talks, but looks promising so far ...
the_frey joined the channel
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ben_thatmustbeme
which project is that?
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melvster
ben_thatmustbeme: not going to announce it till it's official, but it's not hard to guess ;) not many projects of that size that could use SoLiD
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melvster
ben_thatmustbeme: did you see there was an issue raised about the microformats example #1 on the AS2 spec?
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melvster
"create"
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melvster
IMHO we should try and put mf2 under the w3c namespace so there's a stable normative reference
almereyda joined the channel
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ben_thatmustbeme
we have discussed this before, harry responded to your email
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melvster
ben_thatmustbeme: what's your opinion?
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melvster
i mainly interested in what implementors think
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ben_thatmustbeme
on the lack of any "create" syntax? we haven't needed it thus far. if you demonstrate a real need for it the best course of action is to a) start using it as an extension, and find out if its really needed, then if it is very useful and not just something that can be inferred from context, b) propose it as an addition to mf2
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ben_thatmustbeme
the default generally is mf2 object is already created, so its a bit redundant for any purposes thus far
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melvster
ben_thatmustbeme: let's just use AS2 and move MF2 to a note
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melvster
let's vote
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ben_thatmustbeme
thats the wrong tactic, the point of those examples is to see where differences lie
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ben_thatmustbeme
having those examples in there is actually pretty important
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melvster
it's not a tactic ... vocabs need a 1 to 1 semantic correspondence
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ben_thatmustbeme
we did a few meetings back
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ben_thatmustbeme
way too many objections
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ben_thatmustbeme
actually we put them back in because of objections
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melvster
if one cant model the other they should not be marked as the same
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melvster
lets either choose MF2 or AS2
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melvster
i actually dont mind which
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melvster
but let's not say they are equivalent if they are ot
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melvster
s/ot/not
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ben_thatmustbeme
as2 isn't a finished spec yet. agreed, in the end, they should be able to do the same things
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ben_thatmustbeme
right now its important for development of mf2 / trimming of as2
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melvster
only thing is im unsure we have time
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ben_thatmustbeme
instead of "cut out what doesn't fit" find why it doesn't fit, and see which side of the equation needs balancing
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melvster
the deliverables are already 10 months late
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melvster
let's just take whatever is in best shape and go with that for now ... then leave the door open for alignment
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ben_thatmustbeme
if thats the argument just republish existing specs, they are already done
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melvster
i can picture using AS2 right now
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melvster
i can picture using MF2 with a bit of work
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melvster
but we need a timeline on that work
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melvster
it's getting close to the point when we will need to choose
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ben_thatmustbeme
fact is mf2 is IN USE right now, as2 is not
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melvster
tiny use
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ben_thatmustbeme
don't care if you "can picture it"
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melvster
how many profiles?
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ben_thatmustbeme
not getting in to that argument again and your inflated numbers
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melvster
ok, let's not go down that route then
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melvster
but the point is being is use is just one factor
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melvster
it's a plus of course
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melvster
but lots of things are in use
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ben_thatmustbeme
i may lose signal any time now btw, on the trian
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melvster
does not mean they must be used
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melvster
we need a standards quality vocab to work with
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melvster
as2 is making a great claim
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ben_thatmustbeme
no, but by cutting them out you lose real work experience of an entire community
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ben_thatmustbeme
s/work/world/
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melvster
if mf2 did the same thing, like microdata does, or rdfa, or turtle or json ld, that's fine ... but there are differences, and we need to resolve that relatively quickly
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melvster
we have a simple decision
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ben_thatmustbeme
exactly, but the same argument could then be made lets just make mf2 the standard and make json-ld a note. don't want that either.
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melvster
use AS2 or use MF2 or use both
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melvster
sure making AS2 a note is also possible
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ben_thatmustbeme
maybe start a different spec for mf2 style streams then "its not the worst thing in the world having two specs"
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melvster
id personally just like to see 1) a stable reference 2) some kind of extensibility system (AS2 has both of those) (if MF2 can do that too I think we are OK)
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ben_thatmustbeme
mf2 has extensability
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ben_thatmustbeme
and is "stable" enough for w3c and timbl
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ben_thatmustbeme
s/extensability/extensibility
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melvster
ok well if the group happy with it, then why cant we put it somewhere stable like under the w3c namespace?
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melvster
if that exists or will exist very soon, it's a great input ... but id like to see t
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ben_thatmustbeme
did I lose you?
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melvster
not sure, dont think so
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melvster
u r here
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melvster
ben_thatmustbeme: also does anyone in the indieweb have 1000s of followers? that is one of the requirements for the inbox user story ... is anyone in IW actually realistically looking at this?
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ben_thatmustbeme
network popping in and out
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melvster
kk gtg anywya
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ben_thatmustbeme
no, i don't think anyone is looking for an actual case of thousands of followers
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ben_thatmustbeme
remember user stories are only as guides to functionality
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melvster
it's in the use case
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melvster
partially completing is fine
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ben_thatmustbeme
not that they actually have to be 1000s of followers
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melvster
sure they do
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melvster
lots of people do
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melvster
this is the main thing im looking at
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ben_thatmustbeme
i mean to show completion of that user story
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melvster
why not?
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ben_thatmustbeme
should be able to support it
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melvster
im actually implementing it
almereyda joined the channel
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melvster
scalability is really important for SoLiD
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ben_thatmustbeme
implementing++
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Loqi
implementing has 2 karma
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melvster
we want to see we can handle that many users
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melvster
we cant handle millions of followers
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melvster
but a few 1000 is a reasonable challenge I Think
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melvster
and i have profiles with over 1000 followers
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melvster
this is really where we look to learn from activity pump
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melvster
i think we should have a vote on : AS2 REC / Note / NA ... MF2 REC / Note / NA
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ben_thatmustbeme
its going to have multiple objections on both sides
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ben_thatmustbeme
will just be a waste of telcon time right now
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ben_thatmustbeme
especially since we voted on that a few weeks back
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melvster
ben_thatmustbeme: but we've not discovered AS2 and MF2 are incompatible (as per the issue raised this week) ... I think that changes things. Right now what I can say I've observed is that AS2 is looking like a REC track deliverable. If MF2 can align it and convince the whole group it's done that, that'll be great. Im just not sure we're there yet.
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melvster
s/not/now
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melvster
mf2 needs a stable normative reference
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melvster
look nature just published a list of vocabs it uses:
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melvster
2.7 million articles and 1.2 million users
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ben_thatmustbeme
any serialization could likely be coerced to align with any other. MF2 is in-use and doesn't just add things willy-nilly.
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ben_thatmustbeme
nature.com != social
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ben_thatmustbeme
get a list of vocabs that G+, Twitter, FB, etc use, now that would be very interesting to review
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melvster
well i think we should have reused facebook's work but they are not a member of the WG :(
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melvster
however i like AS2
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ben_thatmustbeme
have you found a need for "create" that cannot be just assumed by context?
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ben_thatmustbeme
and by "found a need" i mean hit an actual implementation limitation
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melvster
that wasnt the point raised, the point raised is that the examples are claiming to be equivalent but they are not
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melvster
anyway i got drawn into a long irc conversation i wasnt intending to (again!) ... im going to stick to the ML
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melvster
let's work out which vocabs are inputs to the deliverables
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melvster
while there is still time to deliver something
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melvster
if even that's the case
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ben_thatmustbeme
wonders why the rush
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ben_thatmustbeme
yes we are behind but its not the end of the world
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ben_thatmustbeme
melvster: thats exactly the point though, its a work in progress
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ben_thatmustbeme
its not a spec yet
jasnell, tilgovi, jasnell_ and KevinMarks joined the channel
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melvster
jasnell_: did you get a chance to look at : http://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Media_type_for_AS2
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Loqi
sandro has 20 karma
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melvster
ironically I proposed AS 1.0 having its own media type back in 2012
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melvster
but the w3c didnt have any RECs in JSON at that time
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aaronpk
melvster: URL?
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aaronpk
to the discussion I mean
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aaronpk
good morning
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melvster
it's on the google group, issue was raised by sandeep
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cwebber2
hey, I can't be on the meeting for any more than 10 minutes today unfortunately :(
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Loqi
aww, cheer up
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cwebber2
which is enough to where I could explain the matrix thing
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cwebber2
but probably I should just put up regrets
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melvster
ugh hash bangs
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melvster
i feel like i just polluted the web ...
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aaronpk
melvster: that's a link to the list... do you ahve a link to the message?
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ben_thatmustbeme
looks like there
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ben_thatmustbeme
i don't see you proposing it anywhere, sandeep and evan did
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ben_thatmustbeme
but i'm just nit-picking
akuckartz, tantek and ShaneHudson joined the channel
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ShaneHudson
I'm in and out of client meetings all evening today but shall try to stay here for most of it
tilgovi joined the channel
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tantek
good morning #social
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sandro
good afternoon @tantek
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tantek
present+ tantek
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aaronpk
where is zakim?
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aaronpk
and rrsagent
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tantek
looks like no Zakim in the channel
RRSAgent joined the channel
Zakim joined the channel
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sandro
trackbot, start meeting
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trackbot
is preparing a teleconference.
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trackbot
RRSAgent, make logs public
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RRSAgent
I have made the request, trackbot
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trackbot
Zakim, this will be SOCL
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Zakim
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
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trackbot
Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference
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trackbot
Date: 28 July 2015
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tantek
trackbot, start meeting
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trackbot
is preparing a teleconference.
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trackbot
RRSAgent, make logs public
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RRSAgent
I have made the request, trackbot
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trackbot
Zakim, this will be SOCL
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Zakim
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
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trackbot
Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference
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trackbot
Date: 28 July 2015
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jasnell_
present+ jasnell
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aaronpk
present+ aaronpk
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sandro
We still have the zakimbot for queue management
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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KevinMarks
present+ kevinmarks
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Arnaud
present+ Arnaud
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sandro
present+ Sandro
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tantek
present?
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rhiaro_
present+ rhiaro
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ShaneHudson
present+ ShaneHudson
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aaronpk
i thought present+ was just for the logs
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sandro
zakim, who is here?
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Zakim
sorry, sandro, I don't know what conference this is
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Zakim
On IRC I see RRSAgent, tilgovi, ShaneHudson, tantek, akuckartz, KevinMarks, jasnell, melvster, wilkie, shepazu, Arnaud, JakeHart, mattl, bret, tommorris_, dwhly, ElijahLynn,
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Zakim
... tessierashpool_, slvrbckt, bigbluehat, rhiaro_, raucao, ben_thatmustbeme, cwebber2, tsyesika, Loqi, sandro, trackbot, aaronpk, oshepherd, wseltzer
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sandro
nope.
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ben_thatmustbeme
present+ ben_thatmustbeme
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sandro
zakim, who is present?
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Zakim
I don't understand your question, sandro.
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KevinMarks
is muted on my end
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ShaneHudson
Yeah I'm muted, can hear you fine
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rhiaro_
is muted, can hear
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aaronpk
i can scribe
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aaronpk
scribenick: aaronpk
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tantek
scribe: aaronpk
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rhiaro
dropped..
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ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk i can back you up if you need to talk
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aaronpk
tantek: participation is limited to members, so please hang up if you are not a member
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aaronpk
TOPIC: approval of minutes
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aaronpk
thanks ben_thatmustbeme
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tsyesika
present+ tsyesika
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aaronpk
tantek: any objections to the minutes?
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wilkie
present+ wilkie
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aaronpk
...or any +1s
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wseltzer
present+ wseltzer
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tantek
RESOLVED: 2015-07-14 minutes approved
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aaronpk
tantek: i'm going to declare the minutes hve been approved
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aaronpk
TOPIC: Activitystreams 2
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aaronpk
tantek: first item is a pull request
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aaronpk
... most likely added by james
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aaronpk
jasnell: yeah it was added by me. it's a follow-on to the previous conversation
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aaronpk
... about the purpose of a colection
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aaronpk
... the previous converstaion, rather than adding a type identifier or purpose identifier, the preferred approach would be using a propertly, link-rel aproach
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aaronpk
..that's what this does, to idenity 4 common types of colections
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aaronpk
... inbox, outbox, relationships
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aaronpk
... and store, which is a link to the collection that has all your stuff like albums or posts
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aaronpk
... this is pretty stragithforward, adds 4 properties
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aaronpk
... deprecates replies in favor of inbox
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aaronpk
... rather than having a replies collection you have an inbox
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KevinMarks
-1 on inbox over replies
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aaronpk
... i saw some discussion on IRC about this before
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jasnell
the WD were published last week btw
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aaronpk
tantek: yeah the IRC logs should be recorded, let's assume the IRC logs are there unless someone finds a probelm
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aaronpk
tantek: okay i see one -1 from kevinmarks
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aaronpk
KevinMarks: my concern here is we came up wth reply in the first place based on existing naming practices across social networks
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aaronpk
..there's a distinction between reply and inbox more than just the name
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aaronpk
... an inbox is directed at an individual, a reply is directed at a post
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aaronpk
.. conflating the concepts is confusing implementation detail with a meaningful distinction
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aaronpk
tantek: do you have ea counter proposal to james' changes?
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aaronpk
KevinMarks: i'm not sure why he's deleting replies as well as adding inbox
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aaronpk
... i don't think you can subsume replies with inbox without losing that distinction
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aaronpk
... i woudl say keep replies as well
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aaronpk
jasnell: we have the existing in reply to property
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aaronpk
... if something is posted to the inbox with the in-reply0to property you can infer it's a reply
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wilkie
I think the idea is to do filtering of inbox items into whatever you want?
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aaronpk
.. so we have the ability to maintain the distinction without having a separate collection
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aaronpk
... inbox becomes more generalized
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aaronpk
KevinMarks: so yhow would you express a collection of in-reply-tos
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aaronpk
jasnell: you could do it as an extension, or find a way in the api to dfilter by that
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aaronpk
sorry for all the typos lol
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aaronpk
KevinMarks: i'm not finding that convincing
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aaronpk
... when you build something very large like twitter, you end up constructing an inbox/outbox model which is howyou do caching
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aaronpk
.. but that is not structural
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aaronpk
tantek: james what was the motivation for this change?
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aaronpk
jasnell: it's going through and pointing to the different collection types for discoverabiilty
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aaronpk
... the api is working with different collection types
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aaronpk
... the pumpio API is an example, they have differnet ideas of your inbox and outbox
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aaronpk
tantek: so this is an attempt to normalize AS2 with pump?
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aaronpk
jasnell: yeah
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KevinMarks
"replies Used to provide information about the thread of discussion associated with a given object. Typically, the objects contained will have an implied inReplyTo property value equal to the object containing the replies property."
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aaronpk
... normalize how we discover these separate types of collections
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aaronpk
tantek: we don't have formal API requirements yet, we just have approved user stories
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aaronpk
... although someone could take the approved user storeis and write up API requirements
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melvster
SoLiD developers are also discovering that we need inbox ...
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aaronpk
... and for each requirement, cite the user story that provides that requirement
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aaronpk
... but i haven't heard anyone step up to do this
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ben_thatmustbeme
I see it as moving to a more generalized "inbox", something like "webmention endpoint" in the indieweb side of things
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aaronpk
..bbut if that did exist, you could cite it as an api requirement
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aaronpk
jasnell: if we need to hold off and wait til the api matures more that's fine
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aaronpk
tantek: we also have another agenda item to rename the inbox user story
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aaronpk
.. maybe that will help inform this
jaywink joined the channel
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aaronpk
.. so unless we can come to a quick resolution i don't think we can come to consensus on this call
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KevinMarks
I'm looking for definition of inbox that is as clear as the 1.0 one for replies
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aaronpk
jasnell: the PR describes where i'm at
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aaronpk
KevinMarks: i' see that we have existing AS 1.0 replies thing which is very detailed, i don't see an equivalent in defining inbox in that way
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aaronpk
jasnell: inbox is intentionally defined as a generalized loosely defined concept
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aaronpk
.. that can contain replies as well as other things
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aaronpk
KevinMarks: it sounds less loose to me
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aaronpk
...part of this is inbox implies a receiving end. a reply can happen anywhere, but an inbox is a queue of things that have come from outside thaty ou have to dela with
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ben_thatmustbeme
naming issues with "inbox"
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aaronpk
... in distributed stuff, replies can exist anywhere on the web, but inbox is a queue of things locally
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aaronpk
jasnell: i don't see those as being different things
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aaronpk
... a reply you're going to receive, so they're conceputlaly identical
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aaronpk
tantek: let me see if i can find a way to move forward
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aaronpk
... kevin can you come up with a counter proposal or a proposal in addition to james' changes ijn the next 2 weeks/
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aaronpk
KevinMarks: i'll have to read it in more detail
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aaronpk
.. i appreciate it sounds like i'm arguing about the names of things, but i am arguing they are structurally different
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rhiaro
Can you have a Replies collection for a particular post, but not an Inbox collection for a post, Inbox just for a person?
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aaronpk
tantek: the burden is now on you to come up with a propsoal for how the spec should change to indicate they are different concepts
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aaronpk
... and we can look at that as agroup
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ben_thatmustbeme
rhiaro, thats a good point
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aaronpk
KevinMarks: i'll look at the change in more detail
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aaronpk
ACTION: KevinMarks to provide counter proposal or proposal in addition to James' PR https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/pull/191
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trackbot
is creating a new ACTION.
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RRSAgent
records action 1
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trackbot
Error finding 'KevinMarks'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Social/track/users>.
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tantek
item: AS2: Status of publication of editor's draft?
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aaronpk
TOPIC: status of publication of editor's draft
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jasnell
they were published last week
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aaronpk
jasnell: i would like to start a regular candence of once a month publishing a new draft
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aaronpk
tantek: congrats for another working draft, appreciate your work on that
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akuckartz
jasnell++
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Loqi
jasnell has 28 karma
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aaronpk
tantek: okay good, i agree once a month is a good thing
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tantek
item: AS2: Proposal to replace media type "application/activity+json" by "application/ld+json" plus profile
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aaronpk
TOPIC: re-open proposal to replace media type "application/activity+json" by "application/ld+json" plus profile
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aaronpk
tantek: raised by andreas
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KevinMarks
is not sure how to edit that nicknames page to add myseld
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aaronpk
..i pointed out we don't have any new information, but then andreas documented the new information
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aaronpk
... i'll let andreas present this
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aaronpk
akuckartz: i'll try to keep this short
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aaronpk
... this one issue was created a while ago
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aaronpk
... which was closed because there was no further discussion or actions
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aaronpk
... not based on the content of the discussion
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aaronpk
... i raised this issue of the media type in the SoLiD community and there were several people who agreed it would be better for the linked data community to have the jsonld media type
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aaronpk
... what i'm interested in is it would be good to have more arguments in favor of having the special AS media type
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aaronpk
... the main issue that was put forwrad in this issue was the problem of two information models
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jasnell
I'm -1 on removing application/activity+json, but +0 on adding the application/json+ld+profile.
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aaronpk
... but we alreadya have multiple communities with information models and jsonld is the way to combine the communities
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aaronpk
... my proposal is to reopen the discusison and collect more information
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jasnell
the impact is specifically on the API
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jasnell
essentially, it would mean allowing the API to accept: application/json+api;profile=<http://www.w3.org/ns/activitystreams> as an alternative to application/activity+json
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aaronpk
tantek: okay, sanyone have anything else to add?
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aaronpk
... if not, we can leave the wiki page open to continue to collect the different options
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aaronpk
... and advantages and disadvantagses of each
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aaronpk
... doesn't sound like we have a consensus yet
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aaronpk
jasnell: i'm definitely -1 on removing activity+json media type, but allowing json+ld+profile we can do that also if that makes it easier for the json ld folks
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aaronpk
... all it takes is adding a section to the spec about the profile parameter and what it means
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aaronpk
tantek: you're requeting we ge tsome additional spec test provided as part of a proposal?
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aaronpk
jasnell: yes
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tantek
s/spec test/spec text
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aaronpk
tantek: does that sound reasonable?
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aaronpk
akuckartz: sure
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KevinMarks
I thought the point of using a specific type was that implied a profile, without having to include it?
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aaronpk
tantek: why don't we leave the wiki page open for contributions for two weeks and re-evalutate it then
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KevinMarks
may be remembering wrong
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aaronpk
... is that a reasonable step forward?
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aaronpk
akuckartz: perfect for me
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aaronpk
jasnell: yes and i'll re-open the issue on github
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aaronpk
tantek: thank you both
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aaronpk
TOPIC: Social API
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aaronpk
tantek: any update on the brainstorming document?
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Zakim
sees rhiaro on the speaker queue
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aaronpk
... i thought i saw all 3 ofyou on the call
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Zakim
sees rhiaro on the speaker queue
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tantek
ack rhiaro
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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aaronpk
rhiaro: there's nothing in particular to update, there's been some requests to add solid stuff into the api outline document
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aaronpk
... but nobody has offered to do that
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ben_thatmustbeme
prepped to take over if needed
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aaronpk
doesn't have anything else to add either
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tsyesika
nor do i
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aaronpk
tantek: thanks, any questions about the brainstorming docs or specific requests?
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KevinMarks
reads it
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aaronpk
... okay next item
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melvster
FYI: apache who were doing some work on the SoLiD documentation in the API have left the WG
csarven joined the channel
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aaronpk
TOPIC: Rename inbox user story
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aaronpk
tantek: i added this agenda item
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aaronpk
... to Rename Inbox user story to what it actually is: "Read Social Streams" (or "Social Streams Reader")
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aaronpk
..b based on some of the comments from the original voting
#
aaronpk
... it seems like the term inbox is causing misunderstanding about what this user story is about
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tantek
item: Social API: Rename Inbox user story to what it actually is: "Read Social Streams" (or "Social Streams Reader")
#
aaronpk
... and assumptions beyond what is in the user story
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aaronpk
... let's open up the floor for discussion
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aaronpk
... go ahead and q+ to provide feedback in any way
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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Zakim
sees ben_thatmustbeme on the speaker queue
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melvster
multi tasking ... but left some comments on the agenda ... ie already implementing inbox and have used the term inbox
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aaronpk
ben_thatmustbeme: i had brought this up wa while ago. if it's just the name of the user story and doesn't affect teh functionality, i don' tsee any problem
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ShaneHudson
+1 to changing just the name
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aaronpk
tantek: i think in general, because the contents and steps were voted on and approved, it's out of scope to alter that
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aaronpk
.. if there's an alternative user story there's the other page for that
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akuckartz
has not yet formed a real opinion
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Zakim
sees ben_thatmustbeme on the speaker queue
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aaronpk
.. this proposal is just about changing the name, keeping the steps as writtne
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tantek
ack ben_thatmustbeme
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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Zakim
sees aaronpk on the speaker queue
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ben_thatmustbeme
scribenick:ben_thatmustbeme
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tantek
ack aaronpk
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk: i just wanted to add my +1 to this, because the framing of "inbox" comes with this baggaghe of email-like which is not in the intent of the story
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Zakim
sees KevinMarks on the speaker queue
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aaronpk
scribenick: aaronpk
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tantek
ack KevinMarks
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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aaronpk
KevinMarks: folowing what i was talking abotu earlier, the nuance is the sense of direction
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aaronpk
... sergey desribed twitter as email wihtout a "to" address
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aaronpk
... but there is a mechanism to read it
#
aaronpk
... even tho it's not directed to you
#
aaronpk
... the power of this model is that they don't behave in the way of having an "unread" count
#
aaronpk
... you could do that, but it's underminig the more subtle distinction which is that we hve a web of things people say
#
aaronpk
... and some of them are in response to each other,
#
aaronpk
...but taht shouldn't create a burden on the person to respond to it
#
aaronpk
... calling it inbox brings back that email-centric framing that the web and social web transcends
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ShaneHudson
Agreed about the email mindset being awful
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akuckartz
melvster stated that discussion was initiated on the mailing list.
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aaronpk
tantek: given the input so far let's put this to a straw poll
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melvster
-1 already implementing using the term 'inbox', I did not expect user stories to change at this point, any change would be more work, is the current naming a show stopper for any other implementers?
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aaronpk
PROPSED: rename Inbox story to "Read Social Streams"
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aaronpk
PROPOSED: rename Inbox story to "Read Social Streams"
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melvster
-1 already implementing using the term 'inbox', I did not expect user stories to change at this point, any change would be more work, is the current naming a show stopper for any other implementers?
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rhiaro
melvster: the story isn't changing... the contents of the story are the same
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ben_thatmustbeme
JUST THE NAME
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aaronpk
tantek: i want to clarify, the user story itsefl is not changing
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aaronpk
...so anyone implementing the steps in the user stlory will not need to change their work
#
aaronpk
... but this is about the WG as a whol ebeing better about communicating what we're working on
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akuckartz
-0.5 lets see what happens in the the mailing list discussion
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Zakim
sees aaronpk on the speaker queue
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KevinMarks
can you link to maling list discussion akuckartz ?
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ben_thatmustbeme
scribenick:ben_thatmustbeme
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melvster
would love to see the terms fully defined in consensus with activity pump
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ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk: i just want to point out that the mailing list dicussion that is being brought up on irc is not really a discussion, it is a single email by melvster
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aaronpk
scribenick: aaronpk
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aaronpk
tantek: melvster are you on the phone?
#
melvster
multi tasking sorry ... following on irc ...
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aaronpk
... anyone else understand melvin's objection?
#
aaronpk
... the user stories aren't actually changing
#
aaronpk
... wanted to see if there was any other aspect to his objection that we're not taking care of
#
aaronpk
... andreas you wanted to see what happens in the amiling list discussion
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aaronpk
... aaron pointed out that the discussion has occured on IRC and this phone call
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aaronpk
... do you have a specific objection to make that we should record?
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rhiaro
^ and the wiki
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aaronpk
akuckartz: there isn't that much discussion on the amiling list as a whole as far as i see it
#
aaronpk
... my point is we should perhaps not decide on what to do today but keep it open for two weeks and then decide
#
aaronpk
tantek: if we had new information i would tend to agree
#
tsyesika
well people can -1 when approving the minutes for next meeting?
#
aaronpk
... but i feel like we have enough consensus to declare today
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tsyesika
if they've missed this because of holiday
#
aaronpk
... absense of discussion is not usually a readson to hold things up
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aaronpk
... is that reasonable?
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KevinMarks
whereas the social stream story is clear
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aaronpk
akuckartz: that's okay for me
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aaronpk
tantek: alright let's go ahead and declare that reslved then
#
aaronpk
... if someone does come up with new information deserving to reopen it, we can do that
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aaronpk
RESOLVED: rename Inbox user story to "Read Social Streams"
#
aaronpk
tantek: we can implement that witha change ont he wiki
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melvster
wait; which of the two suggestions are we renaming it to?
#
aaronpk
... let's keep the fragment IDs so existing links don't break
#
aaronpk
... i can take care of that
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aaronpk
.. we just took the first suggestion
#
aaronpk
... and gives a "nod" to the history of RSS, the coincidence of acronyms
#
aaronpk
... any volunteers to edit the wiki accordingly?
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melvster
well my -1 stands ... no one answered if anyone is implementing this user story
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ben_thatmustbeme
I'll take care of it
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aaronpk
... thanks ben
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aaronpk
... just for the minutes, melvin is stil indicating he has a -1 and the reason I chose to override that as chair is my understanding of what he wrote in IRC is his understanding is the user story is changing and that is not true, it's just the name
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aaronpk
... melvin perhaps you can join the next call if you have new information t o add so we can reconsider that
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ben_thatmustbeme
melvster: how could what is basically a rename of a URL possibly EVER effect your implementation / code ?
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melvster
how could it not?
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tantek
item: Social API: Complete: moved approved user stories to the "approved" section on the wiki
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aaronpk
TOPIC: Complete: moved approved user stories to the "approved" section on the wiki
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melvster
naming is a large part of what standards is about
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Zakim
sees aaronpk on the speaker queue
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ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk: its just what it sounds like. I didn't see anyone had done it yet even though approved, so i just went ahead and corrected the wiki with the 8 approved stories
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ben_thatmustbeme
forgot to scribenick for that
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aaronpk
tantek: great okay
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aaronpk
TOPIC: Charter license update
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aaronpk
sandro: i've done my part, it's in the hands of w3c management
#
aaronpk
... i expect it will go to the AC later this week
#
aaronpk
tantek: great
#
aaronpk
.. do you know how long we might expect that to take for the AC to look at and approve/reject?
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KevinMarks
I think reader.kylewm.com counts as an implementation of Reading Social Streams
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aaronpk
sandro: i believe it's 4 weeks
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aaronpk
tantek: whatever we can do to minimze the time, if there's something we can request..
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aaronpk
sandro: feel free to talk to the AB to say we don't need an AC review
#
aaronpk
tantek: this is a good test case to suggest process improvements
#
aaronpk
.. let's see how this goes and document it and se how we can make it go more smoothly in the future
#
aaronpk
.. we expect it to go to the AC this week, they'll have 4 weeks to look at it and vote on it, and at the end of that, it will take nother couple weeks to turn the crank and update the charter
#
Zakim
sees aaronpk, Arnaud on the speaker queue
#
aaronpk
... if there are any objections before hand we can relate that to the WG
#
tantek
ack aaronpk
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Zakim
sees Arnaud on the speaker queue
#
aaronpk
that was from before
#
tantek
ack Arnaud
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
#
aaronpk
Arnaud: i was wondering, i didn't see the final decision on what we put before the AC
#
aaronpk
... is it just the license?
#
aaronpk
tantek: jsut the license
#
KevinMarks
woodwind implements all of that, though 5 would only be security by obscurity for now
#
aaronpk
sandro: did you revise the wiki page with the schedule?
#
aaronpk
tantek: if there's an action for me let's record that
#
trackbot
is creating a new ACTION.
#
RRSAgent
records action 2
#
trackbot
Created ACTION-72 - Update http://www.w3.org/social/wg/overview.html#sched [on Tantek Çelik - due 2015-08-04].
#
aaronpk
TOPIC: tracking actions / issues
#
aaronpk
tantek: no pending
#
aaronpk
... no actions pending review
#
aaronpk
.. anyone want to declare victory on open actions / issues?
#
aaronpk
... alrigh we've got 9 minutes left
#
aaronpk
... i'll confirm the next telcon is August 11, and Arnaud wil be chairing
#
aaronpk
... so no telconference next week
#
aaronpk
... any other business to bring up? or we can close the call and end early
#
ShaneHudson
I have to leave now anyway. Thank you tantek
#
aaronpk
tantek: okay not hearing anything, so i'd like to thank everyone who joined the tel conference
#
aaronpk
.. there's only so much discussion we can do on email and irc, so your participation on the conference helps us make progress
#
aaronpk
.. i appreciate you taking time out of your day to join the call
#
aaronpk
..have a producte two weeks and we'll talk to you on august 11th!
#
wilkie
thanks :) bye
#
wilkie
aaronpk++
#
Loqi
aaronpk has 912 karma
#
tantek
aaronpk++
#
Loqi
aaronpk has 913 karma
#
tantek
ben_thatmustbeme++
#
Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme has 106 karma
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tsyesika
aaronpk++
#
Loqi
aaronpk has 914 karma
#
aaronpk
trackbot: end meeting
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trackbot
is ending a teleconference.
#
trackbot
Zakim, list attendees
#
Zakim
sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
#
tantek
trackbot, end meeting
#
trackbot
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
#
RRSAgent
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/28-social-minutes.html trackbot
#
trackbot
RRSAgent, bye
#
trackbot
is ending a teleconference.
#
trackbot
Zakim, list attendees
#
Zakim
sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
#
RRSAgent
ACTION: KevinMarks to provide counter proposal or proposal in addition to James' PR https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/pull/191 [1]
#
trackbot
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
#
trackbot
RRSAgent, bye
#
RRSAgent
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/28-social-minutes.html trackbot
#
RRSAgent
ACTION: KevinMarks to provide counter proposal or proposal in addition to James' PR https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/pull/191 [1]
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aaronpk
trackbot, make minutes public
#
trackbot
Sorry, aaronpk, I don't understand 'trackbot, make minutes public'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
#
tantek
did we record an official ACTION for ben_thatmustbeme to implement the RESOLVED for the inbox -> read social streams naming change?
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aaronpk
it's already done!
#
aaronpk
will upload wiki minutes shortly
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tantek
thanks aaronpk
#
tantek
and looks like the #Inbox links still work too - thank you
the_frey joined the channel
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ben_thatmustbeme
i updated the wiki while the call was still on
jasnell and jasnell_ joined the channel
tilgovi joined the channel
the_frey and bblfish joined the channel
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Zakim
excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
#
ben_thatmustbeme
waves to Zakim
the_frey, tilgovi, jasnell and almereyda joined the channel