#social 2014-10-28
2014-10-28 UTC
# 
dromasca no way to limit broadcasting to groups, circles, etc.
# dromasca fewer and fewer feed providers are supporting it now
# Lloyd_Fassett q+
# dromasca Lloyd_Fassett - open source?
# dromasca evanpro - not sure, gogle published only the spec
# MarkCrawford With respect to the Federation Protocol, I would hope that we can define a protocol that can support multiple solutions and not limit to LDP or webmention or any other. There are those that are focused on OData driven solutions for outbound feeds and experimentation around federations.
# hadleybeeman is going to pop out — will be with this group for most of tomorrow. Thanks for letting me observe!
# dromasca MarkCrawford - must it be based on LDP, or webmention - newer cases based on social data
# AnnBassetti I appreciate Arnaud's skill managing the queue ... makes for a better meeting
# dromasca tantek - delayed response how to verify relations - every verb becomes a post - list of followers can be linked
# dromasca evanpro - digital signatures can be another idea
# 
elf-pavlik reminds me of hosted and signed assertions in https://wiki.mozilla.org/Badges
# Lloyd_Fassett q-
# dromasca jasnell - many of these techniques based on pings / fat pings (content included)
# dromasca evanpro - pompeio - inbox endpoint that you ping
# dromasca pumpio
# 
oshepherd is very nearly ready to submit his pump.io derived proposal to the WG - sneak peak @ http://oshepherd.github.io/activitypump/ActivityPump.html
# dromasca we're not ready, open to proposal, may need to wait til next f2f
# dromasca Arnaud - what is the next step? not clear yet
# dromasca harry - few suggestions - one draft on http-based api and a strawman proposal for federation
# dromasca ldp work , action handlers work already have owners
# elf-pavlik jasnell, we never got to http://jasnell.github.io/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/activitystreams2.html#actions
# elf-pavlik jasnell, cool! :)
# dromasca tantek - wiki page for api proposals - add more content?
# 
tantek we have this now: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_API_candidates
# dromasca sandro - ldp only a place holder
# tantek shall we start: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Federation_candidates ?
# dromasca Arnaud - try to wrap-up
# dromasca Arnaud - showing agenda for tomorrow
# dromasca annotation wg - move to 3:30 (to avoid conflict w/ AC meeting)
# elf-pavlik I wish you all nice dinner! :)
# 
KevinMarks is agenda on wiki right for tomorrow?
# KevinMarks so 9am start?
# AnnBassetti trying to figure out a nearby place to eat
# elf-pavlik tantek, thanks once again for setting up talky!
# KevinMarks I'm having dinner at home shortly, sorry
# 
RRSAgent I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/28-social-minutes.html harry
# KevinMarks hm, not many good palces over that side
# elf-pavlik signing out 1:30AM here
# KevinMarks to eat there you're either in the hotels nearby or a drive into town
Lloyd_Fassett joined the channel
# Lloyd_Fassett Informal dinner right now at Tomatino 3127 Mission College Blvd, Santa Clara, CA 95054
bblfish, tantek, npdoty, nvdbleek, Arnaud, jasnell, jtauber, bblfish_, nicolagreco, nicolagreco_, cmhobbs and elf-pavlik joined the channel
pfefferle, pfefferle_, cmhobbs and barnabywalters joined the channel
# rektide are the 0.8.2 consumer changes different than 0.9.0 consumer rewrite?
Arnaud, nvdbleek, jtauber, AdamB, jasnell, shepazu, lehawes and MarkCrawford joined the channel
Zakim joined the channel
# wseltzer rrsagent, this meeting spans midnight
EdK joined the channel
# MarkCrawford Arnaut: we did pretty good yesterday. We started out with a loose agenda but ended up filling the whole day. It is always hard at the beginning when we have no preset issues, so we did pretty well.
# MarkCrawford Arnaut: It is hard to solve a problem that is not well defined. When we talked about Social API, people don't really know what we mean - client or server. If we come to consensus, we can do a better job of solving defined problems. The IG has a broader scope for use cases, and can come up with use cases over time whereas the WG has to clearly identify what we want to focus on in a shorter period of time.
jasnell_ joined the channel
# MarkCrawford Arnaut: There is a feeling that the WG doesn't need to redefine use cases, but we should have a document that we can point to that identifies what we want to focus on. If there is a document that we can leverage, then fine, but we have to agree to do this.
dromasca joined the channel
# elf-pavlik hopes to get audio (or even video) soon :)
# MarkCrawford Arnaut: The IG has agreed to initially focus on those that are most important to the WG. the IG report is not important, but we need something for the WG that we can point to that clearly identifies what we are working on and what problems we are trying to solve.
# MarkCrawford elf: - Tanteck is not here yet
# elf-pavlik roger!
# MarkCrawford Arnaut: identified use cases prove extremely useful as we move forward to develop our deliverables. This issue came up several times yesterday which just reinforce my thinking.
# MarkCrawford Sandro: do we need only 3 or so valid use cases to do our work?
# wseltzer s/Arnaut/Arnaud/g
# AdamB can somebody throw in here the link to the swat0 use cases sandro mentioned?
# MarkCrawford Sandro: a paragraph or so should be sufficient for each use case
AnnBassetti joined the channel
# AdamB thanks elf!
# elf-pavlik :)
# AdamB and others!
bryan_ joined the channel
# AnnBassetti elf -- we're going to try to get you going with Talky
Lloyd_Fassett joined the channel
# AnnBassetti I have a web cam
# elf-pavlik Thank You :)
# MarkCrawford elf: the presentation we are about to see is in the IG wiki main page
# elf-pavlik http://talky.io (room: socialwg)
# 
lehawes Link to IG presentation is http://www.w3.org/wiki/File:Social_IG_TPAC_Update.pdf
# elf-pavlik MarkCrawford, got it!
# elf-pavlik thx lehawes!
# elf-pavlik i'll just watch and listen
# elf-pavlik pleaes go on!
# elf-pavlik no worries
# elf-pavlik we can sort it out during coffee break
wy joined the channel
# elf-pavlik AnnBassetti, I see slides directly from pdf
# MarkCrawford Larry: Social IG Update. Agenda is to talk about work that has preceeded us, review our charter/scope/deliverables, give status update, look at example use cases and next steps.
# MarkCrawford Larry: slide 2 - review Pre-IG use case work. Social Web Incubator Group has 5 years of effort and at least one solid use case in their final report.
# MarkCrawford Larry: the other very influential report is the Cloud standards customer Council which has 4-5 solid use cases.
# AnnBassetti elf, OK .. trying to show you the person presenting ... in this case Larry Hawes .. guy in blue shirt, dark hair
# MarkCrawford Larry: we have also brought in those already identified by the WG as well as some of our own.
# elf-pavlik perfect! thanks AnnBassetti :)
# MarkCrawford Larry: slide 3: charter and scope. Chartered to deliver use case report by 12/31/2016. Intend to harvest existing and produce new use cases that illustrate non-technical requirements.
# AnnBassetti elf, any idea why my video is split?
# elf-pavlik no, but let's just roll with it for now
# MarkCrawford Larry: Slide 4 Deliverables. Use Case and requirements report; Social architecture report (Leveraging Headlights report); social vocabularies inventory.
# AnnBassetti ok, sorry
# MarkCrawford Larry: Slide 5 - Membership. Enough to get good work done
# MarkCrawford Larry: Slide 6 - Process.
# MarkCrawford Sandro: When is the IG meeting this week?
# MarkCrawford Larry: during the ad hoc time today
KevinMarks joined the channel
# AnnBassetti elf, we smell gas in the room ..
# elf-pavlik it wasn't me!
wei_james joined the channel
# AnnBassetti sorry we have to leave the room ... we'll be back
jasnell joined the channel
# elf-pavlik ok, good luck with overcoming those issues!
# MarkCrawford Larry: Slide 7 - Status. # meetings, task forces. Scenarios are just a narrative for use cases. Use Case is more detailed per our template which will give us a formal way to document and publish them.
# elf-pavlik I'll keep an eye on the room! you folks can got out get some fresh air :)
bblfish, jasnell, evanpro and jtauber joined the channel
# AnnBassetti can you hear, elf?
# MarkCrawford resuming
# MarkCrawford still on slide 7 status
# elf-pavlik yes i can hear
# AnnBassetti we have the doors open, behind me ... is there too much ambient noise
AdamB joined the channel
# elf-pavlik i can hear good (even better than yesterday!) video got frozen though
# MarkCrawford Larry: working to categorize use cases and we have a first stab at that on the wiki
# AnnBassetti hmm .. I see people moving on video
# MarkCrawford Larry: Slide 8: just read
# AnnBassetti elf, do you need me to restart video?
# elf-pavlik AnnBassetti, yes please
# elf-pavlik q?
# MarkCrawford Larry: Slide 9 - Next steps: discussed
harry and dromasca joined the channel
# AnnBassetti hmm .. maybe I need to drop off and come back in
# elf-pavlik q+ re: any implementations we derrive usecases from? eg: PLP has one https://github.com/hackers4peace/plp-docs
# MarkCrawford Larry: switched to wiki and discussed how you can find the use case TF from the social ig wiki.
# elf-pavlik sandro, can you unmute yourself so i can hear?
# elf-pavlik please :)
# elf-pavlik thx!
npdoty joined the channel
# elf-pavlik sandro, please mute again :)
# elf-pavlik AnnBassetti, can you unmute please? :)
# AnnBassetti done
# elf-pavlik great! thank you :)
# AnnBassetti can you hear?
# MarkCrawford Larry: Social Profile Creation Use Case. We want your feedback on both the template as well as the content.
# AnnBassetti now there's a big fan behind me .. is that too noisy?
# elf-pavlik a bit but not a big deal
# MarkCrawford Larry: Social Profile Creation wiki page
# MarkCrawford Larry: Working with an openID model around social profile creation such as google that could then be federated to other social profile maintainers.
# MarkCrawford Larry: Noted Success Scenario and Success and Failure Criteria.
# MarkCrawford Not crazy about verb: federate.
# MarkCrawford Sandro: copied or mirrored
# elf-pavlik AnnBassetti, can you ask tantek to mute?
# MarkCrawford Harry: do you want to copy, open, or share?
# elf-pavlik AnnBassetti, your laptop has better sound then tantek's webcam
# MarkCrawford James: should at least spell out the different options
# AnnBassetti ok
# AnnBassetti better?
# MarkCrawford Larry: some could have graphic representation. We also need to add id for original submitter.
# elf-pavlik AnnBassetti, yes and with 2 cameras i can now see everything :D
# AnnBassetti yes, cool
# MarkCrawford ?? How do we get comments?
# AnnBassetti I wish I could zoom my view
# elf-pavlik + remote control ;)
# jtauber :-)
# MarkCrawford use cases need to be on individual wiki pages, have comment section, and tolerate inline changes to leverage wiki concept
# elf-pavlik cwebber2, join us :)
# MarkCrawford Larry: federation of Profile Information to a nNew Network or System.
JonathanJ3 joined the channel
# MarkCrawford Larry: read Social Profile Updates UC
harry joined the channel
# MarkCrawford Larry: read social Profile Deletion UC
# dromasca +q
JonathanJ3 joined the channel
# 
Zakim elf-pavlik, you wanted to discuss any implementations we derrive usecases from? eg: PLP has one https://github.com/hackers4peace/plp-docs
dret joined the channel
# MarkCrawford elf: we have a prototype for the use cases here, wondering if we have others to compare?
# elf-pavlik we have implementation and i wonder about other implementations
# MarkCrawford Larry: elf is pointing to a scenario, not something in our UC format.
# elf-pavlik so we can compare and test interoperability
# MarkCrawford Arnaud: I don't understand elf's point.
# MarkCrawford Larry: this is detail oriented, but not UC
# elf-pavlik do we track somehow implementations?
# MarkCrawford Arnaud: I am interested in - we just saw an overview of what we saw as profiles. Is that capturing what we are thinking, or is there others that we also need to capture so that my problem can be solved.
# MarkCrawford ?? Does profile include privacy options?
tantek joined the channel
# MarkCrawford Larry: It should, and i think we tried to capture.
# MarkCrawford ?? I define privacy as between the owner and provider.
# MarkCrawford Larry: No, we don't currently capture that?
# MarkCrawford Larry: we have not yet gotten to requirements out of these yet. My vision is you build high level use cases and then build requirements out of that.
# MarkCrawford ?? Is your federated system considered an end to end type of relation?
# MarkCrawford Larry: that is an implementation choice and there should be a way to control
# MarkCrawford q+
# dromasca ?? = dromasca
# MarkCrawford james: so, the actors in this case we cant create or delete and the system controls. We may be the subject, but not the owner. there is an additional role - profile owner might be the providor.
# dromasca s/Is your federated system considered an end to end type of relation?/Is your federated system considered an n to n type of relation?
# elf-pavlik hi cwebber2 :)
# MarkCrawford Sandro: the way I think of profiles as different than this. Profiles as the art of identity. The way I talk about people is their profile. You frmaed this as like facebook. What are the identifiers?
# MarkCrawford Larry: We do not plan to touch ideentity. there is a relationship between these.
# AnnBassetti cwebber2, can you hear OK?
# AnnBassetti cool
harry joined the channel
# MarkCrawford q-
# MarkCrawford evan: I want to express concern about identify management, it is a big topic that has been addressed by other organizations and we may want to defer.
# MarkCrawford Ann: won't be solved here.
JonathanJ3 joined the channel
# MarkCrawford Harry: I have a simple rule - dont use the word Identity as there is confusion when it is used. littany of organizations who deal with this. For this particular use case the word profile helps clarify that we are talking about editing and sharing profiles.
# MarkCrawford Harry: access control is something that is very hard.
# MarkCrawford Arnaud: Charter did not address the access control issue because it could be a rat hole so we agreed that we would only address requirements/use cases. Next version of charter can address once we are clear on what we are concerned with.
# AnnBassetti can you guys hear Tantek? (at far end of room from me)
# elf-pavlik good enough
# AnnBassetti good
# MarkCrawford tantek: I share evan's concern about the use of the word federation. Need to be more clear about what you mean. A lot of us use more specific terms like syndication which is much more specific.
# MarkCrawford tantek: pushing or pulling is something you can implement to.
# MarkCrawford Larry: I hope it would be as we do requirements as to what choice we are making. We are purposely trying to find a vague term and once we get to requirmements we can refine.
# MarkCrawford Larry: may be a difference between business and development.
# MarkCrawford tantek: whatever thing you are federating, you use the same identifier for that across the network.
# MarkCrawford tantek: phone number and email are examples of federation across networks
# MarkCrawford tantek: example of breaking federation is twitter t.co. that is not federation as it breaks the identifier.
# MarkCrawford tantek: both openID and indiauth use the same identifier.
# MarkCrawford Evan: we have different ideas about this.
# MarkCrawford sando: is there another word?
# MarkCrawford tantek: looking it up in the context of technology passport and passport number is an example of federation across countries.
# AnnBassetti q+
# AdamB q+ to share that within the enterprise its common that people have the same identifier / identity across systems
# MarkCrawford me: tanteks vision strikes me as a federated network for a specific id rather than a federated profile.
# jtauber q+
# MarkCrawford ann: trying to understand the distinction between identifier and federation. IDs like phone number, passport number use to identify me, but I don't see that as federated. the example I have in my brain is where we all create our user profile in boeing where the sys creates a generic profile and the subject can then amplify. We then have sharepoint which creates a separate profile. We want to create where sharepoint pulls the profile.
# MarkCrawford Tantek - that is not federation, its centralization.
# MarkCrawford Ann: I don't understand how the passport is federation and not identification
# elf-pavlik tantek, maybe worth capturing your point somewhere in https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg#Hypotheticals
# MarkCrawford q+
jasnell joined the channel
# MarkCrawford action - need to define what we mean by federation
# 
trackbot Error finding '-'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Social/track/users>.
# jtauber q-
# MarkCrawford Ann: we need to collectively define.
# AnnBassetti and have consensus on our use of these terms
# trackbot Created ISSUE-5 - Need glossary for terms used in use cases e.g. "federation". Please complete additional details at <http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/5/edit>.
jasnell_ joined the channel
# EdK q+ to say that business use cases can extend beyond the internal company, i.e. collaborations beyond (in response to AdamB
bblfish joined the channel
# AnnBassetti waves at bblfish
PaulJeong joined the channel
# dromasca +q
# AnnBassetti MarkC: I want to know, as we share profiles across systems, that we have commonality on profile component definitions
# AnnBassetti Ann: yes, we will come to the day when we have external partners and suppliers logging in at our firewall
# AnnBassetti ... and we will need to federate profiles in each direction
MarkCrawford joined the channel
# AnnBassetti suggests dromasca enter his comments into irc
# MarkCrawford all - for the last ten minutes my typing was not posting in irc. If you spoke, please enter your comments in irc so we don't loose them
# AnnBassetti dang computers
# MarkCrawford Larry: now that we have a better understanding, we can refine what we are doing.
# AdamB It’s interesting the different perspective that a corporation brings to these situations. Corporation have one unique identifier for an employee, the ‘employee identifier’. That identifier is used in all the systems I use throughout the course of the week so identity isn’t nearly as much of a problem for corporations.
# MarkCrawford Evan: I want to get more involved
# elf-pavlik MarkCrawford, cany you copy paste from your machine?
# dromasca we seem to be talking about federation of identity information - not all belongs to the social space
# dromasca i posted the url of prior art work in the scim wg in the ietf - http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-scim-use-cases/
# AdamB There is what we refer to as Human Resources (HR) data and then user provided data. A person cannot delete their HR data but can remove their user provided information.
# hadleybeeman can talk about identity federation and passports and things, if you want a view from someone who's worked on them
# EdK EdK discussed that primary "federation" is about profile information between dissimilar systems, primarily between business collaboration efforts e.g. suppliers, university partnerships, etc. This IMHO is beyond identity - for example SKILLS is a profile component, not an identity component.
# MarkCrawford Arnaud: before we leave, we need to talk about the next F2F meeting. I am hoping that what we have already accomplished these two days convinces folks about the importance of F2F meetings. Perhaps a two day meeting is most reasonable.
# MarkCrawford Arnaud: The F2F is hosted by one of the WG members. Provide a meeting room big enough for the number of expected participants, food, etc.
# hadleybeeman annbassetti/tantek: Passports are a particularly good example, because they're issued by multiple authorities (countries) and recognised/used by multiple entities (other countries).
# MarkCrawford Ann: we should be fair to geographic considerations. I need to get permission before I can commit.
# MarkCrawford Sandro can also volunteer
# elf-pavlik fair to geograhic considerations - Europe? ;)
# MarkCrawford Tantek: if folks don't show up they feel left out.
# MarkCrawford tantek: Sandro suggested that we try to co-locate with e.g. an IndieWeb camp.
# MarkCrawford general back and forth on different locations
# elf-pavlik pool?
# AnnBassetti thanks Tsyesika
# AnnBassetti are you, cwebber2?
# MarkCrawford Arnaud: not trying to settle anything yet. Question is timing. List of possible dates and locations.
# AnnBassetti aha
# elf-pavlik oshepherd?
# AnnBassetti waves to bret
# MarkCrawford evan: Perhaps align with due dates when we are expecting to have somehting like a federation protocol that we can discuss?
# MarkCrawford ?? Doodle poll?
# elf-pavlik +1 pool
# AnnBassetti Harry, and, how many from NAmerica?
# MarkCrawford Harry: typically WGs do 6 months.
ahdinosaur joined the channel
# MarkCrawford Harry: we should rotate so we are not geographically biased.
# AnnBassetti bret, we're not using Zakim
# KevinMarks I'm about to head over to the location.
# KevinMarks Should I bring my external mic for later on?
# elf-pavlik KevinMarks, do you have mic with protection from wind?
# MarkCrawford general discussion around dates.
# KevinMarks There is wind? I normally put a towel over it for that
# trackbot Created ISSUE-6 - Make sure we have teleconferencing equipment for next f2f. Please complete additional details at <http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/6/edit>.
# MarkCrawford discussion around providing virtual attendance capabilities for future meetings
# elf-pavlik let's do next one in summer europe then :D
# elf-pavlik second next
# elf-pavlik +1 Turin
# MarkCrawford evan: How do we push to a decision point?
# MarkCrawford Larry: don't we need to include those not here now?
npdoty joined the channel
# MarkCrawford arnaud: we need to make sure this is minuted and broadcast so that objections can be raised.
# AnnBassetti dromasco says there was good WebRTC support for remote participation for joint IETF / W3C meeting
# MarkCrawford tantek: wants to keep first week of march on table.
# AnnBassetti we need to find out how they did that
# MarkCrawford Arnaud: we can have poll
# MarkCrawford Arnaud to take action to set up doodle poll with different options
# MarkCrawford Evan: suggest we have as a minimum the chairs and editors can make it to the meeting.
# elf-pavlik can't hear now...
# MarkCrawford We will resume at 3:30
# tantek background reading before joint meeting with annotations WG at 3:30: http://indiewebcamp.com/marginalia and http://indiewebcamp.com/fragmentions
claudio joined the channel
# KevinMarks Yay for fragmentions
# KevinMarks (biased, me?)
# AnnBassetti you folks on the camera ... I have to go to AC meeting .. break now, then others will have task force meeting.
# AnnBassetti they'll use Tantek's camera
# AnnBassetti see hyou later
# elf-pavlik thanks AnnBassetti have a good AC meeting!
# elf-pavlik bret, frozen one? :D
# elf-pavlik really, stayed frozen for me all the time ...
# elf-pavlik tantek, unmute?
# elf-pavlik yes
jtauber and jasnell joined the channel
# elf-pavlik oshepherd, you want 3D stream?
# elf-pavlik well you have your chance now for a bit...
npdoty joined the channel
# 
bret oshepherd elf-pavlik pair it with https://www.flickr.com/photos/bretc/15466384617/
# elf-pavlik cool! put it on a drone and fly around room ;)
bblfish and evanpro joined the channel
tantek and AnnBassetti joined the channel
# elf-pavlik we do it now?
AdamB joined the channel
# elf-pavlik i just listen
jasnell joined the channel
harry joined the channel
# elf-pavlik q+ re: tracking implementation efforts for use cases we gather and prioritizing them accordingly
npdoty joined the channel
npdoty_ joined the channel
# elf-pavlik i see it important that we track implementation efforts for use cases and prioritaze them accordingly
# elf-pavlik in WG we need feedback from people who implement AS etc.
# elf-pavlik if no one implements use case i would prioritize it lower
# elf-pavlik ok
Lloyd_Fassett joined the channel
tantek_ and grantmacken joined the channel
tantek joined the channel
dret joined the channel
# elf-pavlik R2-D2 style mic ;)
# 
dret big question is: will AS2 *require* JSON-LD context mechanism, or allow the AS1 way of using terms. my preference would be to allow but not require JSON-LD contexts, and have a registry for namespaces so that people can make their vocabularies know to the world. these may be described in the JSON-LD way, or like the AS1 vocabulary: as a simple list of terms annotated with human-readable descriptions.
# elf-pavlik sound got much worst :( can't really hear any more ;(
# elf-pavlik now better
# elf-pavlik thanks! much appreciated :)
KevinMarks_ joined the channel
# elf-pavlik in which cases exactly one can't treat JSON-LD as JSON? (not AS1 JSON)
# KevinMarks_ adding JSON-LD extra to a JSON structure is fine, but requring them to be correct makes this much harder
# KevinMarks_ jasnell if you MUST the LD parts you break interop directly
# elf-pavlik dret, even if we recommend always using JSON-LD compacted with AS2.0 context?
# KevinMarks_ I thought JSON-LD was supposed to add context, not remove it
# elf-pavlik dret, can you post some concrete examples to mailing list?
# dret jasnell if you say MAY JSON-LD, then JSON-LD is out of the picture in the processing model section, and there's just an appendix that explains why the base syntax supports JSON-LD, but processors have to be prepared to deal with any JSON. that will make life hard for people working with JSON-LD toolsets, because they cannot assume to always see everything through their JSON-LD goggles.
# KevinMarks_ are these old use-cases relevant? http://wiki.activitystrea.ms/w/browse/#view=ViewFolder¶m=Examples
# KevinMarks_ on android, you can claim http URLs as intent from an app; the OS manages contention - on iOS you need to define your own protocol per app and there is no contention resolution
# KevinMarks_ on android, my app can claim http://twitter.com/*
# KevinMarks_ the OS will manage contention over them
# KevinMarks_ on iOS behaviour is undefined
jasnell joined the channel
# elf-pavlik for finding vocabs: http://lov.okfn.org/dataset/lov/
# KevinMarks_ share is an OS verb on android that anyone can hook; on iOS this was hard-coded, just changed a bit
# elf-pavlik enjoy your meal everyone!!!
# KevinMarks_ "Note: If more than one third-party app registers to handle the same URL scheme, there is currently no process for determining which app will be given that scheme." https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/iPhone/Conceptual/iPhoneOSProgrammingGuide/Inter-AppCommunication/Inter-AppCommunication.html
harry joined the channel
# elf-pavlik cwebber2, still with us?
# elf-pavlik Tsyesika, online?
# elf-pavlik great! :)
# elf-pavlik i prepare comparison of actions in AS, schema.org and Hydra
# elf-pavlik and may use example of movie review with rating
# elf-pavlik do you have review/rate feature in MediaGoblin?
# elf-pavlik schema.org uses such example in their docs http://schema.org/docs/actions.html 'Example: Movie review site API with -input and -output'
# elf-pavlik cool, once i have it published maybe you could give me feedback?
# elf-pavlik oh, please just go ahead :) anytime in next days will work just fine!
# elf-pavlik ok, have a good one Tsyesika!
# elf-pavlik cwebber2, no rush!
# elf-pavlik evanpro, looks cool :)
# elf-pavlik evanpro, do you understand my point with advantage of hypermedia controls over arbitrary paths like /evan/notes /evan/images /evan/friends /evan/meals /evan/books etc. ?
# elf-pavlik cwebber2, please send it directly to WG (implementers) list, i don't see it out of scope at all!
# elf-pavlik in silo environments ...
# elf-pavlik similar as symetric relations like friends, we will face some need to change our way of thinking in federated environment
# elf-pavlik but i do get your point about people currently having certain expectations to APIs
# elf-pavlik cwebber2, we had this conversations yesterday, sorry for mixing conversations ...
# elf-pavlik cwebber2, i recommend watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkAt9XSOfaE
# elf-pavlik much shorter :D
# elf-pavlik second just 7min and IMO very relevant to MediaGoblin!
# elf-pavlik cwebber2, James will talk about Actions during next session - this 7min vid can give you great intro :)
# elf-pavlik also Caley may solve your issues with relational database ...
# elf-pavlik no session now
# elf-pavlik next one in ~3h i think 15:30 their time
jtauber joined the channel
# elf-pavlik welcome :)
# elf-pavlik relevant to GMG?
# elf-pavlik for example?
# elf-pavlik with hypermedia you just include supported controls so client app will not expect features you don't provide!
# elf-pavlik yes, so audio would have 'listen' control and video 'watch' for example
# elf-pavlik cwebber2, do you have some form of collections / albums ?
# elf-pavlik BTW i think we SHOULD extract some use cases based on GMG features!!!
# elf-pavlik expecially if you will work on implementing stuff and providing much needed feedback
# elf-pavlik wilkie++
# elf-pavlik we can create types for them, for example sub types of http://schema.org/CreativeWork
# elf-pavlik cwebber2 i think James will present embeded experiences during next session :)
# 
cwebber2 that Tsyesika is collecting her research as she goes at https://theperplexingpariah.co.uk/GMG/mediagoblin_research.html
# elf-pavlik cwebber2, thanks for link!
evanpro joined the channel
# elf-pavlik needs micro break before last round of remote TPAC participation :)
# elf-pavlik cwebber2, please do!
# elf-pavlik otherwise if you two plan to figure it all out on your own, please let us know so we stop wasting our time and find something else to do ;)
# oshepherd cwebber2: BTW, as somebody familiar with the Pump API, you might like my WIP soon-to-be submission: http://oshepherd.github.io/activitypump/ActivityPump.html . Comments very much invited :-)
# elf-pavlik cwebber2++
# elf-pavlik IMO implementing Pump.io API as its stands now can give very useful input to Social WG work!
# elf-pavlik now really needs to go afk :)
# 
evanpro oshepherd: I'm interested in your thoughts on https://www.w3.org/wiki/images/5/54/Social-api-layers.png
# evanpro At least with pump.io a POST to /user/evan/following will generate an activity
npdoty joined the channel
bblfish joined the channel
# jtauber I haven't done anything interesting with either of mine (DK1 and DK2), but here are my (ongoing) notes in case you're interested (although most of them are about the DK1): https://thoughtstreams.io/jtauber/oculus-rift/
jasnell joined the channel
tantek, AdamB and clapierre joined the channel
# rektide thanks for the great post, departed evanpro
dret, shepazu and tantek joined the channel
# jtauber yeah, it's tough with them
jasnell, evanpro, shepazutu and cmhobbs joined the channel
# rektide evanpro: thanks for the great diagram! really enjoyed seeing something
Arnaud joined the channel
npdoty joined the channel
# oshepherd /evan/inbox?type=Mention&type=Like or whatever
# evanpro OK I started here https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/API/Layers
dwhly joined the channel
# rektide evanpro: yeah, external resources with inbound linkage
# rektide wilkie: i think /evan/mentions might be a candidate collector for mention resources, but otoh i'm not sure why individual resources wouldn't expose their own mentions collector
pfefferle joined the channel
# rektide i don't feel like /evan/inbox is a good permenant resource for the mention... where does it really get filed?
# rektide evanpro: agreed with your breakdown
KevinMarks and bblfish_ joined the channel
AdamB, evanpro_, evanp, jasnell, jasnell_ and npdoty joined the channel
# elf-pavlik next session in 20min ?
# jtauber that's great!
bblfish joined the channel
# elf-pavlik evanpro, when do we start?
# elf-pavlik in ~10 min
tantek and jasnell joined the channel
# KevinMarks now
evanpro joined the channel
EdK joined the channel
# KevinMarks we're in the other room - the #annotation one
# elf-pavlik cwebber2, yes i wait for someone to start it in the room
bigbluehat joined the channel
# 
bigbluehat hi new friends!
ujvari, azaroth, nickstenn, tilgovi and JakeHart joined the channel
# KevinMarks can you scribe in 2 rooms at once?
AdamB and tantek joined the channel
# elf-pavlik hi #annotation :) hey tilgovi!
# KevinMarks I could noterlive...
fjh joined the channel
# KevinMarks slides for #annotation http://www.w3.org/2014/annotation/diagrams/annotation-architecture.svg
# elf-pavlik could someone start https://talky.io/socialwg ?
# KevinMarks who will annotate the annotators?
# azaroth ScribeNick: nickstenn
bjdmeest joined the channel
raphael joined the channel
# nickstenn shepazu: we have a charter that contains a number of things
tzviya_ joined the channel
# nickstenn ... some deliverables we hope we don't have to make and #social will make instead
# nickstenn ... want to explain what we're trying to accomplish overall for annotations
# nickstenn ... [presents diagram of "Web Annotation Architecture"]
aron_ joined the channel
# nickstenn ... this is an attempt of a description of what we hope to see as the overall architecture
# nickstenn ... everything starts with someone creating some content
# KevinMarks http://www.w3.org/2014/annotation/diagrams/annotation-architecture.svg is diagram if you just joined
# nickstenn ... content creator sends content to a publisher (maybe the same person) who publishes it
csillag joined the channel
# nickstenn ... footnotes and comments may be added to the document
# raphael RRSAgent, draft minutes
# RRSAgent I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/28-social-minutes.html raphael
# elf-pavlik cwebber2 oshepherd folks will go in ~30min to room with webcam for overview of AS2.0 PotentialAction
# nickstenn ... comments aren't in separate documents
# nickstenn ... another role -- a reader -- who can annotate documents
# nickstenn ... can annotate footnotes or comments
# nickstenn ... they target a discrete selection within the document
# nickstenn ... support for overlapping annotations
# nickstenn ... annotations aren't supposed to live on the same document
# nickstenn ... when I submit a comment to someone's blog, I'm implicitly entering into a creator-publisher relationship with the blog owner
aron_ joined the channel
# nickstenn ... we think it would be more interesting if an annotator can publish their own annotations without the say-so or involvement of the publisher/creator of the document
# nickstenn ... we also want the ability to notify a publisher of annotations made on their documents
# raphael s/!!!!/Topic: Joint meeting Social/Annotation WG
# raphael RRSAgent, draft minutes
# RRSAgent I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/28-social-minutes.html raphael
# nickstenn ... annotation services provide a way for readers to discover and subscribe to annotation content on the web
# nickstenn ... the aim is a distributed mechanism for creating, storing, and discovering annotations
# nickstenn ... we introduce another character, the "sharer"
# nickstenn ... people can share the annotations [as first-class entities]
# raphael nickstenn, would be good if you could type: s/!!!!/Topic: Joint meeting Social/Annotation WG
# nickstenn ... and there's a chain of attribution
# nickstenn s/!!!!/Topic: Joint meeting Social-Annotation WG/
# raphael RRSAgent, draft minutes
# RRSAgent I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/28-social-minutes.html raphael
# nickstenn ???: this is a perfect use case for the stuff we're looking at
# tilgovi s/???/James Snell/
# nickstenn ... this flow here fits in perfectly with what we've been talking about
# tilgovi I don't have to escape those ?s do I? This isn't regex?
harry joined the channel
# nickstenn ??2: i'll run through a status update on what [social] have been working on
# nickstenn tilgovi no, don't think so
# azaroth tilgovi nope, ??? is fine
# KevinMarks ironically can't annotate that presentation with fragmentions as it's in SVG
# nickstenn harry: mark crawford is chair of interest group
# nickstenn mark crawford: we have a template for use cases
# nickstenn ... on the wiki
# nickstenn ... you can fill that out, add any figures you want
# nickstenn evanpro: social ig/wg chartered in julyt
# tilgovi s/julyt/july/
# elf-pavlik can someone kick Loqi ? ;)
# nickstenn ... social ig is working on use cases and issues around social and identifying ways the w3c can be helpful in this space
# nickstenn ... three main deliverables
# KevinMarks Loqi is logging
# nickstenn ... 1) social data syntax
# nickstenn ... 2) social api
# nickstenn ... 3) and a federation protocol
fabien-gandon joined the channel
# raphael who is Loqi?
# nickstenn ... 1) is a repr of activities (status updates, etc.) that happen in a social context -- changes to the social graph, content creation, content replies, etc.
# tilgovi This link (appears first above) is to slides being summarised right now: http://evan.prodromou.name/files/TPAC/
# nickstenn ... it's a syntax that's JSON(-LD)
# azaroth link for the FPWD would be useful please
# nickstenn ... just went to FPWD with activity streams 2.0
# nickstenn ... activity streams is a subject-verb-object structure "Evan - posted - this image"
# KevinMarks Loqi is the social logging bot for indieweb et al - generates nice HTML logs http://socialwg.indiewebcamp.com/irc/social/2014-10-28#bottom
AnnBassetti joined the channel
# raphael Activity streams 2.0 FPWD at http://www.w3.org/TR/activitystreams-core/
# nickstenn ... 2) social API -- a client/server HTTP based API that will use the social data syntax
# AnnBassetti elf, setting up talky right now
# elf-pavlik Loqi++
# nickstenn ... there's a client embedding API
# nickstenn ... we are currently in the process of developing this social API
# nickstenn ... working off existing work that came out of open social, and a number of other social APIs
# nickstenn ... goal is to get social API to a WD this quarter
# nickstenn ... 3) federation protocol -- a syndication of activities across different security domains
# nickstenn ... if I generate a number of activities that I'm storing in a social store
# nickstenn ... people will be able to follow me remotely and receive updates on those activities -- under my control
# nickstenn ... aim is to have a well-documented mechanism to transfer social data between different locations
# nickstenn ... we could walk through the Web Annotation Architecture, but a lot of people in the room can probably see where they fit pretty quickly
# nickstenn shepazu: everything that's not at the document level is a pretty obvious fit
# nickstenn ... i want to call out the work we're doing that you're not
# nickstenn ... we're defining a data model that says what an annotation is
# nickstenn ... also working on serializations
# KevinMarks people like JSON-LD?
# azaroth KevinMarks - is that an activity event? ;D
# nickstenn ... working on the piece that links to a specific part of a document -- what we're calling robust anchoring
# nickstenn tantek: some of the work on webmention may have overlap on that as well
# nickstenn james snell: we're not modelling the specific content types so this fits very well for us
# elf-pavlik thank you AnnBassetti :)
# elf-pavlik AnnBassetti++
# nickstenn AnnBassetti: [introduces people from Europe on a webrtc link]
# elf-pavlik orange color
# nickstenn fjh: I want to know what the actions are when we're done discussing
Lloyd_Fassett joined the channel
# nickstenn shepazu: at the very least we should be giving [social] some use cases
# nickstenn james snell: we're looking for feedback on our FPWD
# tilgovi elf-pavlik et al, video laptop just lost power, coming back momentarily
# nickstenn tantek: hi, I'm the co-chair of the social WG
# nickstenn ... one of the inputs to the federation protocol is webmention
# nickstenn ... [demos a note, with a bunch of comments that have come into the site via the webmention protocol]
# nickstenn fjh: is this an open-source implementation?
# raphael pointer ?
# nickstenn tantek: [demos an example of a reply made using an open-source implementation hosted on someone's own site]
# nickstenn ... the other example you're probably more interested in is marginalia
# AdamB sorry guys, lost power on the webcam
# nickstenn ... ??? combined webmentions with fragment identifiers to create "fragmentions"
# raphael Second demo link is https://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia
# nickstenn ... [shows example of inline margin comment, published again on someone's own site, but which makes reference to a specific location in a published document]
# nickstenn s/???/Aaron Parecki/
harry joined the channel
# elf-pavlik thinks JSON-LD may come handy :) http://www.openannotation.org/spec/core/
# nickstenn shepazu: I'd like to see what the next steps look like
# nickstenn fjh: why do you folks need use cases from us?
# elf-pavlik didn't intend to gent into that now... just spoted TrIG in http://www.openannotation.org/spec/core/
# nickstenn James Snell: we can look at it and see if our stuff [Activity Streams] fits what you're doing
# tantek In summary - I showed this post with favorites and reposts and comments federated via webmentions: http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/10/15/3/border-none
# nickstenn harry: we can formalise the relationship between the WGs if there are clear dependencies
# nickstenn fjh: there may be some of our standards effort that overlaps with social APIs, and some that doesn't
# tantek and then I showed Marginalia: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia and the annotation on this fragmention: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia##So+if+you+sent+a+webmention posted on another site here: https://kylewm.com/2014/06/this-is-super-exciting-great-work-building-it-and-a-real-testament
# nickstenn fjh: is fragmentions something you're looking to standardise?
# tantek see http://indiewebcamp.com/fragmentions for the spec
# nickstenn KevinMarks: came up with it after I Annotate 2014. it was the simplest thing I could think of which addressed the problem of identifying a part of a document.
# nickstenn ... so far it's just on the IndieWebCamp wiki
# KevinMarks it was the annotations meeting in April that inspired fragmentions: http://www.kevinmarks.com/w3cannotation.html#quotation+from+the+work http://www.kevinmarks.com/fragmentions.html
# nickstenn TimCole: there are potentially issues with fragmentions (IP, overloading the meaning of fragment identifiers, etc.)
# nickstenn shepazu: the way fragmentions and what we're looking to do dovetails is as follows
# nickstenn ... you currently need a javascript library to make that work
# nickstenn ... one possibility is that we standardise a "find text" in page API
Zakim joined the channel
# elf-pavlik q?
# elf-pavlik q+ fjh
# nickstenn tantek: hasn't been proposed for standardisation, but it is CC0, on the web
# tantek see http://indiewebcamp.com/fragmentions#Open_Source for implementations
# azaroth q?
# KevinMarks there is a prior art discussion at http://indiewebcamp.com/fragmention#Related+work
# AnnBassetti Lloyd Fassett
# nickstenn Lloyd_Fassett: there was a mention of if someone liked "Ice Cream" they could follow "Ice Cream" ... what are the proposals for that?
# nickstenn fjh: probably a throwaway comment we can ignore
# AnnBassetti elf , did you want to be on queue?
# nickstenn s/fjh/someone/
# elf-pavlik AnnBassetti, just Zakim not present when fjh tried get on queue...
# AnnBassetti aha
# nickstenn sandro: is there a nominated liaison between the two groups?
# elf-pavlik +1 liaison
# elf-pavlik fjh i did /invite Zakim and then added you :)
# nickstenn azaroth: we have no invited experts at the moment, but this may be an opportunity to add one
# nickstenn ACTION: identify a liaison between the two WGs
# trackbot Error finding 'identify'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Social/track/users>.
# nickstenn fail
# nickstenn ACTION: KevinMarks to act as liaison between the two WGs
# trackbot Error finding 'KevinMarks'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Social/track/users>.
# nickstenn ok, i'm gonna stop that now
# elf-pavlik KevinMarks, your w3 nick?
# KevinMarks kmarks2
# nickstenn Arnaud: there's a pretty big overlap in general, not restricted to robust anchoring
# elf-pavlik ACTION: kmarks2 to act as liaison between the two WGs
# trackbot Error finding 'kmarks2'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Social/track/users>.
# azaroth q?
# azaroth ack fjh
# nickstenn fjh: maybe just Evanpro and I should just talk and arrange the liaison we deem appropriate
# AnnBassetti you guys on talky have any questions or comments?
# raphael trackbot hates nickstenn :-)
# trackbot Sorry, raphael, I don't understand 'trackbot hates nickstenn :-)'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
# nickstenn Arnaud: it's good we've identified the overlap early on
# raphael and me
# elf-pavlik trackbot says Loqi s/LOL/:D/ ??
# trackbot Sorry, elf-pavlik, I don't understand 'trackbot says Loqi s/LOL/:D/ ??'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
# nickstenn tantek: it'll be interesting to see how the overlap pans out, as the social WG is focused heavily on use cases, user scenarios, whereas you are starting from an abstract model
# nickstenn azaroth: we have discussed use cases at length in the CG, it's simply that we're not going to be rediscussing those in the WG
# nickstenn James Snell: I can take an action look at the existing data model and see how it fits
# KevinMarks this wiki looks a bit blank: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Web_Annotations
# nickstenn fjh: we'll get back in touch before our next call
# AnnBassetti ACTION: James Snell will look at web annotation model and figure out how it maps into social work
# nickstenn azaroth: I'll take the corresponding reverse action to look at Activity Streams 2.0
# azaroth ACTION: azaroth to look at the Social WG FPWD
# trackbot Error finding 'azaroth'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Social/track/users>.
hhalpin joined the channel
# nickstenn Arnaud: where are you in terms of legacy, backwards compatibility problems?
# nickstenn ... in social WG we have some issues around this -- that's why it's Activity Streams 2.0
# tantek FYI: here is a permalink to the start of our joint meeting and minuting between #social and #annotation: http://socialwg.indiewebcamp.com/irc/social/2014-10-28#t1414535621356
# AnnBassetti s/social work/social work and Activity Streams /
# elf-pavlik ACTION: jasnell to look at web annotation model and figure out how it maps into social work
# trackbot Error finding 'jasnell'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Social/track/users>.
# elf-pavlik ACTION: jsnell to look at web annotation model and figure out how it maps into social work
# nickstenn azaroth: we're in pretty much the same situation -- two groups originally that joined forces in 20xx and published a joint spec for data model and serialization (no APIs)
# nickstenn ... we have free rein for the HTTP API and client-side/server interactions
# nickstenn ... looked at several platforms, including Annotea, which we eventually abandoned
# azaroth http://www.w3.org/2001/Annotea/
# nickstenn sandro: are there protocols that are currently being used being by products in this space?
# nickstenn azaroth: nothing beyond basic REST APIs afaik
# nickstenn ... multiple ways of doing search
# tantek in the social realm, we have interop across many implementations with Webmention http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention
# nickstenn sandro: we'd like to know what you need from the protocol in this context?
# nickstenn Evanpro: we need to wrap
# nickstenn *: thanks all round
# AnnBassetti talky guys ... I'll reconnect in other room
# elf-pavlik doesnt see KevinMarks on http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=72531&public=1
# hhalpin he was approved yesterday by EvanPro, details may still be propagating
# elf-pavlik it may explain why tracker didn't want to add ACTION ...
jasnell and jtauber joined the channel
# elf-pavlik #social as:<3 #annotation ;)
evanpro and lehawes joined the channel
# EdK scribenick EdK
claudio joined the channel
# EdK Wed morning 9:15 am unmeeting with schema.org
# EdK jasnell: opensocial embedded experience was an input
# EdK primarily built around a gadget model
# EdK jasnell: not sure anyone is interested in continuing to use the gadget model
# EdK potential actions like a share is something could to with content
# EdK then a set of actions of what should happen
# EdK for example call out a deep link in a mobile app
# EdK a simple action like Share could be done with simple declarative syntax
# EdK the user experience would be a buoon - a share or like button
# EdK then it could open a view, like a browser view
# EdK the media type will define what is embedded, like a video
# EdK embedding a script tag is far more common
# EdK jasnell: where different actions might be done, open a browser view, a native mobile action,
# EdK want to embed with the content so the . can choose which to use
# EdK it would be that the implemetner could leverage the options, or could ignore them and do their own thing
# EdK these are the publisher's options, the things teh publisher says you could do with it
# EdK decoupled this, comapred to Embedded Experience in OpenSocial which was tightly tied
# EdK the details about whatr you are embedding isn't part of this
# EdK could be web component, iFrame, scripts, a number of different ways
# EdK in current editors draft is an "expects" property, which is a variety of additional metadata
# EdK but this overlapw with other work like hydra
# EdK dow we want to define or leverage other prior work
tantek joined the channel
# EdK can designate the sandbox policy
# EdK the activity vocabulry defines the model for this embedded view, it does not define the share action
# EdK reference yesterday can verbs be just nouns, would make this quite a bit easier
# elf-pavlik linke to presentation?
# EdK can have an activity statement like a share, currently activity being modeled different than a potential action
# elf-pavlik jasnell, cool! thx
# claudio q+
# EdK Sandro: difference wouldn't be noticed by user
# EdK jasnell: right, the implementor determines
Lloyd_Fassett joined the channel
# EdK this is something that needs to be worked out, should there be a ui ...
dret joined the channel
dromasca joined the channel
# EdK jasnell - basically what potential actions can be done aganst a containing object, it doesn't matter what the object is (images or whatever)
# EdK query the data store gets the actions along with it. the action data travels along with it.
# EdK Sandro: how close to running code?
# elf-pavlik can we try second computer with https://talky.io/socialwg ?
# EdK jasnell: some is running now
tantek_ joined the channel
# EdK evanpro: support 3 basic actions share like and comment, this could be a big payload to pass along, perhaps not attach to each and every payload
# EdK an event with rsvp options, a poll that could be replied to, games, whater
# EdK s/whater/whatever/s
# EdK some security issues with accepting a url from someone else, action syas use this to open something else, etc.
# elf-pavlik cwebber2 do you get audio/video?
# AnnBassetti I had to reconnect .. lost you
# EdK jasnessl: no standard way to do a Like, if we had a standard, thenw e could pass it without the identifiers. but there are too many to accomplish, so could do the basics and then detail teh others
# AnnBassetti oh yeah? I don't see you
# AnnBassetti more important you see the room
# AnnBassetti rats
# elf-pavlik i can see and hear
# AnnBassetti my pleasure; it's a drag to be remote
# EdK another alternative is to have a thing we can do like, share, comment. a get would say what these actions are
# EdK could use whitelisting, haven't found a better solution yet
# AnnBassetti roger dodger
# AnnBassetti except I don't understand why I have split screen
# AnnBassetti oh well
# EdK dret: I see repeating these actions over and over could be noisy, but if push to type, then can teh client infer that. if not, then they can't tell waht action to do for an activity.
# EdK or Adam pushes something into the feed, discussed that its been done in several ways, need to solve so we don't attach 20 actions and send around
# elf-pavlik dret, have you looked at http://www.hydra-cg.com/spec/latest/core/ ?
# EdK tantek: in webcamp have a lot of experience, not theoretical, done over more than a year
# EdK displaying page noted in irc
# elf-pavlik can hear only white noise :(
# AnnBassetti s/Adam pushes/ATOM pushes/
# AnnBassetti hmm ... now why?
# EdK tantek: webintents had issues that translated into UI nightmare
# elf-pavlik will try to rejoin
# elf-pavlik fixed!
# EdK came up with a set of common actions, this is what people are deploying today.
# AnnBassetti goood
# EdK only 2 attributes "do", "with"
# EdK even if you have no support for webactions, the page will still work
# KevinMarks link for Tantek's discussion http://indiewebcamp.com/webactions
# EdK if you are handling an indie action, user has specified what to do with the action
# EdK demonstrated a few approaches linked from the above noted page
# EdK berry frost used text and graphic/icon as a good use case example
# EdK took some webcomponent magic, he used CSS
# EdK demonstrated fallback action to twitter when not defined
pfefferle joined the channel
# EdK evanpro: when using feedreader approach, can you operate on teh actions?
# EdK tantek: is inside the hentry, currently wouldn't do something. certainly doable erhaps as simple as one class name
# KevinMarks you mean e-action tantek?
# elf-pavlik µ:action ;)
# EdK Sandro: what about if you dont' do what evan just asked:
# EdK tantek: using register protocol handler. can register on your site. the site you are browsing doesn't know that. asks if you have a handler, if not it will fall back
# EdK discussed "register the web action protocol" as teh method
# EdK jasnell: the action handler work, jasmes sees lots of overlap. the action handler type prevents more options, but is much simpler. roughly equivalent approaches, support of multiple fallback options, dealing with verbs, don't see thse as too far off
# EdK tantek: doesn't say how to handle the verb. you can have an indei-action tag without a fallback
# EdK s/indei/indie/s